$5 NL HE 6-max: Zoom 5NL: A fishy turn jam

[puzzlefish]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.02/$.05

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

$

pokerstars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.02/$0.05 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $4.30 (86 bb)
MP: $5.71 (114 bb)
CO (Hero): $6.53 (131 bb)
BU: $3.19 (64 bb)
SB: $4.80 (96 bb)
BB: $5.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.07) Hero is CO with K♠ A♣
UTG calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, 2 players fold, UTG calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.52) K♣ 5♦ 6♠ (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.35, BU folds, UTG calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.22) 9♣ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.84, UTG raises to $3.80 (all-in), Hero ?

More splashing in 5NL Zoom. This time, this particular player had just called me down on a previous board with a low suited queen hand with no possible draw for him except maybe trips with his bottom pair of 6 . I had been playing for about 30 minutes before this one showed up. This is my second hand playing against him.

Do we give him credit here?

 

[gustav197poker]

Preflop and flop very standard. On the turn I guess you decided to call when you bet second barrel with about a 2/3 pot size.
Regarding this fact, a fish could lead with donk bet on all the turns he thinks are good for him (maybe he likes his set of 9s). On the other hand, a slightly more thoughtful player might sense that you want to keep betting, then he might leave you that opportunity to commit to the pot.
The V chose this second way to play, which makes me think that he possibly wants to represent a strong value (because there aren't many natural bluffs in this texture, except for some BDFD combos).
That's why I think we should have some extra equity here to call against a standard UTG opening.
Although this V doesn't seem like the solid type of player, I might as well let him get away with it this time, since if V is very wide (as he apparently seems) he could now have all 16 combos: 78, which gives him the nuts for this texture. Obviously to consider this possibility we should bet less on the turn (between 1/4 and 1/3 pot).
I like your aggression against this villain when you have AcKc (TPTK + BDFD for you), without the Kc I prefer a slightly less aggressive line against a weaker player.
Greetings.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
I would isolate a bit larger like 4,0-4,5BB.

Flop
Standard C-bet.

Turn
This is a classic Baluga Whale theorem spot, and even though this theorem is now almost 20 years old, I think, its still holds a lot of value for microstakes cash games in particular. A solver might want you to call off here, but I think, its fine to just fold and live to fight another day. He is not doing this with a weaker K like KQ or KJ. Those hands just call again. So if you call here, you are basically hoping to catch a bluff.

You have shown a lot of strength with your sizing, and if he can hand read, it looks very much like, you have a hand just like the one, you have. Typically microstakes players dont try to bluff their opponent off top pair or better, because its generally a good way to light money on fire. So I think, that if you call here, the vast majority of the time you will get shown a straight, a set or two pair. 87, K9, 66 and 55 all make complete sense for him to have and play this way.

The Baluga Theorem | BalugaWhale Poker Theorem

An explanation of the Baluga Whale poker theorem and how you can incorporate into your game.

www.thepokerbank.com

 

[liuouhgkres]

super villain dependent. If you have stats on the villain and he is overly aggressive, then it's call. By default I think you should just fold, as players at these stakes very rarely bluff raise turn and rivers.

 

[puzzlefish]

super villain dependent. If you have stats on the villain and he is overly aggressive, then it's call. By default I think you should just fold, as players at these stakes very rarely bluff raise turn and rivers.

I don't have stats, but I do have the observation of some very strange play from him from the previous hand he was in with me. But yes, this spot does feel very awkward on the turn.

 

[puzzlefish]

I think, that if you call here, the vast majority of the time you will get shown a straight, a set or two pair. 87, K9, 66 and 55 all make complete sense for him to have and play this way.

But why would someone do that and risk losing value from me folding?

From the CC course, we are told to play aggressively with draws and take the foot off the gas when we have equity with a made hand, so that we can extract more value from lesser hands.

I almost feel like I have no choice but to call here because the line doesn't make sense to me for someone holding the nuts on the turn. I can't see him having K9 or 87 on UTG. Maybe this is why I get setmined so successfully.

 

[fundiver199]

But why would someone do that and risk losing value from me folding?

If he just call you again, pot is going to be 2,88$, and he will only have 2,96$ behind. How is he supposed to play the river in that situation? Lead out? Or check and just pray, you dont check behind? Being out of position its not unreasonably for him to get it in on the turn with a strong hand, rather than let you see the last card for free and play the river in position.

From the CC course, we are told to play aggressively with draws and take the foot off the gas when we have equity with a made hand, so that we can extract more value from lesser hands.

But we are not told to limp-call UTG, or to play with a broken stack. These are both pretty clear signs, this is a recreational opponent, who have not taken poker courses or anything like that. And the way most recreational players think, is, that they try to make a hand and then get paid. They also have a tendency to put their opponent on AK, when the opponent raised preflop, because this is, what they do themselfes. And for that reason its often great to C-bet A or K high boards, or bet when an A or K comes on the later streets. But when they check-raise on a A or K high board, its usually because, they can beat AK.

I can't see him having K9 or 87 on UTG.

He is a recreational player, so he probably dont know the "correct" preflop ranges, and he also wants to see some flops and have some fun for his five dollars. So he limp, because he has a marginal hand like K9 or 87, which is good enough for him to see a flop but not to build a big pot, unless he hit the board hard.

 

[puzzlefish]

Being out of position its not unreasonably for him to get it in on the turn with a strong hand, rather than let you see the last card for free and play the river in position.

But we are not told to limp-call UTG, or to play with a broken stack. These are both pretty clear signs, this is a recreational opponent, who have not taken poker courses or anything like that.

He is a recreational player, so he probably dont know the "correct" preflop ranges, and he also wants to see some flops and have some fun for his five dollars. So he limp, because he has a marginal hand like K9 or 87, which is good enough for him to see a flop but not to build a big pot, unless he hit the board hard.

Ok, that is reasonable, but very gross at the same time because when we make decisions, on the one hand we consider our villains to be capable players who can potentially recognize and understand unfavourable SPR situations but on the other hand we also recognize situations like this when they are not playing optimal poker and not choosing the correct ranges. It sounds murky and like we are choosing the safe way of playing when a fishy rec jams into us.

I did call this jam and it was ATo.

UTG raises to $3.80 (all-in), Hero calls $2.96

River: ($8.82) 6♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $8.82 (Rake: $0.37)

Showdown:
UTG shows T♣ A♦ (a pair of Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 26%, Flop: 2%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

CO (Hero) shows K♠ A♣ (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 74%, Flop: 98%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

CO (Hero) wins $8.45

 

[John A]

Short stack, it's probably close... He can be shoving worse Kx with how bad players play at these stakes, so it's probably a pretty neutral call. Probably not huge EV fold/call unless you have specific reads or stats. Generally these size jams, you'd want to fold.

 

[Aballinamion]

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.02/$0.05 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $4.30 (86 bb)
MP: $5.71 (114 bb)
CO (Hero): $6.53 (131 bb)
BU: $3.19 (64 bb)
SB: $4.80 (96 bb)
BB: $5.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.07) Hero is CO with K♠ A♣
UTG calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, 2 players fold, UTG calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.52) K♣ 5♦ 6♠ (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.35, BU folds, UTG calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.22) 9♣ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.84, UTG raises to $3.80 (all-in), Hero ?

More splashing in 5NL Zoom. This time, this particular player had just called me down on a previous board with a low suited queen hand with no possible draw for him except maybe trips with his bottom pair of 6 . I had been playing for about 30 minutes before this one showed up. This is my second hand playing against him.

Do we give him credit here?

Preflop you could’ve raised a bit more, like 4x for instance, but it’s fine. On the flop we most likely have the best hand so I’m board with our c-bet here.
On the turn things start to get nasty, because we know that most of times that people are check-raising or jamming turn/river is because they have us.
But let’s consider this villain limped preflop into the pot. Let’s consider this villain has a broken stack. Let’s consider there are plenty of draws that could be bluffing in a situation like this, specially the club draws for flushes and JT, QT, etc, and on top of that, villain still could be holding KQ, KJ, KT...
We are not expecting lots of KK on villain’s range, só taking all of these aspects into consideration we are very close and many times we are simply winning by far.
Given this short and previous information over villain, I’m afraid we should be calling here more than folding.
We shouldn’t give credit to this player this spot, if it happens that villain is holding 55, 66, 99 or 87, good for him/her, we take another note on it and let the chips fall as they may.
If we are folding TPTK versus a weak player like this one, we are folding basically anything.
Thanks for posting, keep on grinding!

Best regards;

 

[Aballinamion]

without the Kc I prefer a slightly less aggressive line against a weaker player.

Agree partially with your reading mate: hero holds the ace of clubs which is much better for bluffing then the kings of clubs. Of course that if we had both top clubs here (AcKc) we would go through hell with our hand.

He is not doing this with a weaker K like KQ or KJ. Those hands just call again. So if you call here, you are basically hoping to catch a bluff.

This player would call back if it thinks and plays like you do: this villain isn’t a regular like you are, dear mate, so you are assuming too much and being radical saying that he wouldn’t be check-jamming turn with a dominated king or a draw.
I also agree with the Baluga Theorem, most of times players raise OTT and OTR they have us dead, but this is a very weak player with a history of going with dominated hands.

 

[Aballinamion]

UTG shows T♣ A♦ (a pair of Sixes

Haha, I haven’t read the result by the moment I posted and this was awesome! Hope you are killing NLHE 5 to the ground! Although is kind of thrilling your hero call was fine, based on the information you had about villain.
Personally, I got myself awed, for I wasn’t expecting villain to be bluffing with a nonsense combo as ATo

 

[gustav197poker]

Agree partially with your reading mate: hero holds the ace of clubs which is much better for bluffing then the kings of clubs. Of course that if we had both top clubs here (AcKc) we would go through hell with our hand.

The club ace is excellent for bluffing the turn until you V raise 4.5x the bet. At that point it is better for V to have the Ac in his range, unless in addition to Ac we have another important blocker like Kc.
Yesterday I folded second flush with Kc3c, I had position on my opponents. It was a flop with 3 active players and 3 clubs at the table. It turned out that my super nit opponent from UTG had a flush with Ac and MP paid him with a set.
The point is that in these cases having position is very important and hero had it, so by betting big on the turn, he practically committed himself to the pot and almost always had to call, because he wasn't forced to continue betting on a dry board for UTG range.
It's okay to say that V is most likely a weak player and that's why we can exploit him with TPTK. But on this board when we bet more than half the pot on the turn, chances are V will raise more often than not for value. Imagining V trying to bluff on the turn with hands like Qc5c, Qc6c, 5c4c, 6c7c from UTG is a bit optimistic. To be honest hero was very lucky this time that V floated him with OTF crap.

 

[puzzlefish]

Hope you are killing NLHE 5 to the ground!

I think maybe I have been having an upswing but I am hopeful!

To be honest hero was very lucky this time that V floated him with OTF crap.

You are probably right. But I would definitely try to get lucky against this type of player rather than other more solid players.

 

[fundiver199]

I did call this jam and it was ATo.

There is always going to be some frequenzy of random bluffing, but I still think, this is a long term losing call against an unknown fishy 5NL player. Most commonly wild bluffs like this happen, when they are on tilt. I mean... how does he even get to the turn with that hand?