2pl Omaha

[KMC1828]

Show me a hand that dry aces are behind that doesn't have aces in them.

My lotto ticket is called "shoving aces preflop", except that with this lotto ticket you're a favorite to win.

Seriously. I don't care what kind of rhetoric you guys have. Show me some numbers. Why is shoving dry aces bad? What part of villain's range has us beat? Why do you keep writing word after word but don't show me any proof that what you're saying is correct.

You people are ridiculous. You think about poker in terms of cliches & rhetoric that you read somewhere (probably here). But poker, especially cash games, are all about EV. And if the expected value of an outcome is positive, you bloody well do it. No matter how much rhetoric there is against it.

So show me that shoving dry aces preflop is -$EV.
Otherwise, all your talk is just simply that.

Against 1 player, you're usually going to be ahead, probably 65-35 or so or at a coinflip, depending on the kind of hand your opponent has (if he has a pair in his hand, hes going to be behind and it wont be a coinflip). Against more than 1 player, you're probably behind. Here are 2 preflop scenarios.

But once again, this is a post-flop game, so, if you want to go a-shovin preflop w/ AAxx be my guest, you probably wont get any callers to begin with in any legitimate (25pl+) game, but have fun with the blinds.

Edit: went back and did a calculation on the 1v1 hand but with the JT89 double suited, came out to be 50.06% (AA27oo) vs 49.94% (JT89ss).

 

[ph_il]

Wow, thanks for the responses and arguments. Im slowly starting to pick up the game a bit more. Just a few more questions:

-Best beginner strategy? I've been playing pretty tight as of recently, only getting involved with maybe top 20 hands. I've picked up that it is a post-flop game.

-6 handed vs 9 handed: Any difference? I know in NLHE, you can open your hand range a lot more in 6 max, but is the same true for omaha? Or, since it is a post-flop game, should I continue to be selective with my hands?

-I understand what is being said about Preflop vs post-flop. Especially with hands like AAxx vs JJ109 DS. Are there any hands in PLO where I can feel confident in getting it all in PF?

 

[c9h13no3]

I've picked up that it is a post-flop game.

Yeah, while its postflop, you still need to be playing quite tight preflop. Not because by playing loose postflop you're giving away an edge, but you will often be dominated by the better hands.

So for example, hands like KQJT vs. KQJ3. They can both flop a 13 out straight draw on a T9x flop. However, the KQJT hand has a pair, so it doesn't need to improve to win (KQJT is a 79% favorite on a T9x flop). Additionally, KQJT can flop many more wraps, and can hit more flops than KQJ3.

but have fun with the blinds.

But see, that's the thing. In many scenarios there's way more money than just the blinds in the pot. So if an early position player raises, and several players call, then we can trap a lot of money in the pot preflop, and get most of our stack in with aces. And taking the dead money there is certainly a profitable move.

And yes, against multiple players, our hand loses its effectiveness just like aces in hold'em. However, hence why we try to 3-bet and get heads up (and a large portion of our stack in while we're ahead, trap dead preflop money, ect.).

Dry aces are good for more than just making top set. You should pretty much be playing them like sorta AK, since its hard to be behind preflop. Use them preflop for their fold equity & the fact that you're almost never behind, and take down pots preflop/get in heads up as a favorite.

I don't claim to be a PLO genius. However, there are some basic facts that don't take any expertise to recognize. expected value is universal through all forms of poker. So while I may not have earned 5000000$ from playing PLO, I can recognize that if newbs are going to stack with KKxx, getting all in with AAxx is a profitable move.