25nl flopped set on flush board

Effexor

Effexor

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I wasn't sure exactly how to proceed with this hand. Do I want to get as much in the middle as possible on the flop here?

Stacks:
BB with $32.35
UTG with $24.30
UTG+1 with $25.00
MP1 with $40.15
MP2 with $20.00
CO with $29.85
BTN with $16.60
SB with $33.65



hand.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: Full Tilt Poker
Dealt to SB:5♦ 5♣
Sklansky group 6
Preflop:
BB raises to $0.85
2 players fold.
MP1 calls [$0.85]
1 players fold.
BTN calls [$0.85] Hero calls [$0.60]
Total folds this street: 3
Potsize: $3.4
Flop:
4♥ 5♥ Q♥

Hero ?

BB seems fairly solid, something like 25/19/2
MP1 is a total LAG spewtard thats been getting lucky 70/30/8

Since I'm OOP, I fully expect BB to bet out regardless of his holdings, and then for the LAGtard to reraise him, as he has done on basically every pot that he's been in.

Is there any real reason to fear a flopped flush?

 
B

Bentheman87

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Sep 6, 2007
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Against 3 other players yeah you should fear a flush here but not so much to make you fold. Even if one of them does have a flush you have a ton of outs to make a boat. I think betting out, check raising, or check calling are all fine. At least one of them probably has the ace of heart or king of heart and will play.
 
S

switch0723

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Id rather see a more trappy play here.

I check to the villains, followed by flat calling any bet. This will make it obvious to them you are on a flush draw. On a non heart turn, we can then check it to villains again, if they have top pair, you can expect to be stacked off into here since you have represented a flush draw. If a heart falls on turn though, we can still get away from it.

Id just rather see the slow play on that flop because it allows us to be stacked into from weaker hands on the turn such as top pair and results in a +ev play in the long run
 
S

soonerdel

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Sep 14, 2007
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ultra scary flop... id flat call any reasonable bet and hope to pair the board for a monster pot..
 
Effexor

Effexor

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I agree with you Switch, and I think I overplayed this terribly despite the results. Check calling the flop then c/r the turn with no heart probably would have been a much better play.

Here's the rest:

Stacks:
BB with $32.35
UTG with $24.30
UTG+1 with $25.00
MP1 with $40.15
MP2 with $20.00
CO with $29.85
BTN with $16.60
SB with $33.65

hand.pl


hand.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: Full Tilt Poker
Dealt to SB:5♦ 5♣
Sklansky group 6
Preflop:
BB raises to $0.85
2 players fold.
MP1 calls [$0.85]
1 players fold.
BTN calls [$0.85]
Hero calls [$0.60]
Total folds this street: 3
Potsize: $3.4
Flop:
4♥ 5♥ Q♥
Hero checks
BB bets [$3]
MP1 raises to $9
1 players fold.
Hero raises to $32.80, and is all in
BB calls [$28.50] [ all-in ] Hero shows :
5♦ 5♣
BB shows :
A♥ Q♦
1 players fold.
Uncalled bet of $1.30 returned to Hero
Total folds this street: 2
Potsize: $76.7
Turn:
9♣
Potsize: $76.7
River:
A♣
Hero shows three of a kind, Fives
BB shows two pair, Aces and Queens

Hero wins the pot ($72.65) with three of a kind, Fives
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Feb 2, 2005
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13,642
I don't think you overplayed this at all - waiting for the turn is another option, but I actually like stacking here. What makes TP or an overpair more likely to stack the turn if we check-call then check-raise it?

By getting it in on the flop you get strong FDs to tag along almost always, whereas if you wait for the turn AQ for example might think twice about their hand. I either check-raise this as you did or lead-push it, but either way I'm getting it in on the flop most of the time.

If the board is a lot more coordinated, say if you have 88 on an 89T suited board, then I might wait for a turn card as your equity will change a lot more drastically than it will here by waiting for the turn.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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I don't like the check-raise or even check-call at all here. Scary board, a lot of TPTK type hands will stack off here regardless (from read, one guy in the pot is a "spewy lagtard"), while weaker hands may check behind. The other thing you have to realize, which is a big mistake a lot of people make, is that betting is the one thing that does NOT represent a made flush. Think about it, this many people in the hand and you flop a flush. How would you play it? Would you honestly lead out thinking you'll most likely have action and then you can either slowplay or check-raise? So a check certainly doesn't signal flush draw, and once you bet the non-heart turn it's pretty obviously either a steal attempt or something like the made flush or set. And if the heart does hit it can kill you in 2 ways, taking away value from TPTK type hands as well as flat out losing you the pot if someone hits their flush. Simply because of the reads of the people on the table I don't mind the way played check-raising, but in general against average players here I think a lead out is necessary. You're way ahead of all their ranges, and even if one of them flopped the flush you still have 7 outs and then 10outs to hit. You definitely want your money in the middle in this situation, and I simply think the best way to do it is get it in there. We don't want to be facing a 4th heart and I just don't like the slowplay here. I think the OP played this fine and it worked out.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

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Zach, people are really dumb at $25NL. Betting to them represents the flush IMO, + the Lagtard is going to bet if he has anything like TP so checking and letting them build a pot is best.

Calling and waiting to the turn will mean that there is more chance for the BB to add some more dead money on the flop by calling the extra $6 rather than puttin him to a decision for all his chips.

Personally I prefer c/c the flop the c/shove the turn or river if its checked behind(barring a 4th flush card) to c/r'ing the flop.
 
S

switch0723

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Sep 2, 2007
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I think more needs to be done on this topic, which is more profitable c/c the flop the c/r turn, or stacking flop, since there seems to be a split of opinions here.

I think by check calling we can induce a 3 way pot, plus a few players may easily fold to a big all in on flop holding a hand such as q,t with no hearts. Whereas if we push the a non heart turn, a hand such as the q,t mentioned above may very well think they are still ahead and stack off more lightly
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

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I think more needs to be done on this topic, which is more profitable c/c the flop the c/r turn, or stacking flop, since there seems to be a split of opinions here.

I think by check calling we can induce a 3 way pot, plus a few players may easily fold to a big all in on flop holding a hand such as q,t with no hearts. Whereas if we push the a non heart turn, a hand such as the q,t mentioned above may very well think they are still ahead and stack off more lightly

I agrre with Switch on this. c/c the flop means you are more likely to go 3 way all-in and therefore more profitable.
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

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Feb 18, 2007
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Chk raise all in on flop is sound imo. I'm not a fan of slow playing on the flop with 2 villains as a 4th heart kills our hand a lot of the time here. Get the money in whilst ahead.
 
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