$25 NLHE Full Ring: float IP in a 3 bet pot, bet turn, continue on the river?
JOEBOB69
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
i'm loseing calling 3bets ip over every limit but 4nl on merge.Once i take out AA,KK,QQ
Edit:Yeah you deff should be calling more 3bets with AA,KK etc. vs some one who's 3bet range has tons of air in it and likes to flop cbet and turn cbet.
Edit:Yeah you deff should be calling more 3bets with AA,KK etc. vs some one who's 3bet range has tons of air in it and likes to flop cbet and turn cbet.
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
I think this hand illustrates the difference between 6M and FR. In 6M you would well be justified in flatting pre and floating flop quite a bit because the blinds 3-bet like crazy vs. CO/BTN opens. In FR NL25 you might as well just fold pre 100% and never worry about being exploited here.
WEC
Legend
Silver Level
Once you have put yourself in this spot you may as well push allin on river and continue as though you have the Q, that is what it clearly looks like. If the 17/15 does not have the Q you have a decent chance of taking it down whatever pair he has, depending on what your stats are for the table, and his image of your play. If you feel you have a super aggressive image (and/or have shown down several bluffs, floaters or second/third pairs), then pushing allin may not be as good of an option.
Either way, it is only 1/2 a BI pushing on river, that is easy to make up
Either way, it is only 1/2 a BI pushing on river, that is easy to make up
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WEC
Legend
Silver Level
Just to add
Even though it sucks losing 1BI if you lose the hand, there are other benefits if you push on the flop for .5BI and lose with air. You appear to be a loose gunslinger willing to push it in with nothing. That should certainly garner you some big calls when you have the real goods and make a similar big bet. If the players stay around long enough.
Even though it sucks losing 1BI if you lose the hand, there are other benefits if you push on the flop for .5BI and lose with air. You appear to be a loose gunslinger willing to push it in with nothing. That should certainly garner you some big calls when you have the real goods and make a similar big bet. If the players stay around long enough.
Jurn8
Legend
Silver Level
whats the guys 3bet? there is no mention of it yet everyone is saying its bad to flat. If you have 1k on him the 3bet sample will be decent enough to make a decision. If hes running 17/14 its probably fine to flat as he will be playing fit/fold a tonne. however you should have notes on his 3betting range by now, is he 3betting polarised or depolarised in this spot?
As played I like how you played it but check back river imo he probs isnt folding anything due to less combos of Qx now in your range.
As played I like how you played it but check back river imo he probs isnt folding anything due to less combos of Qx now in your range.
WEC
Legend
Silver Level
You already have half your stack in the pot, then you are going to waive the white flag and say "I got no game"? If you have much deeper stacks, ok, check away.
I am one of the bigger old school nits, but if you do not push here on the river, you do not belong playing poker. If he calls he calls, but checking is about as bad as it gets, unless you need the last $12 and change to buy your next meal.
I mean, I believe he has the Q and I know his real hand
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Jurn8
Legend
Silver Level
Once you have put yourself in this spot you may as well push allin on river and continue as though you have the Q, that is what it clearly looks like. If the 17/15 does not have the Q you have a decent chance of taking it down whatever pair he has, depending on what your stats are for the table, and his image of your play. If you feel you have a super aggressive image (and/or have shown down several bluffs, floaters or second/third pairs), then pushing allin may not be as good of an option.
Either way, it is only 1/2 a BI pushing on river, that is easy to make up
You already have half your stack in the pot, then you are going to waive the white flag and say "I got no game"? If you have much deeper stacks, ok, check away.
I am one of the bigger old school nits, but if you do not push here on the river, you do not belong playing poker. If he calls he calls, but checking is about as bad as it gets, unless you need the last $12 and change to buy your next meal.
I mean, I believe he has the Q and I know his real hand
please tell me a range you rep shipping the river superstar
WEC
Legend
Silver Level
I told you everything you need to know in this hand given the situation you are in at the river. I would be shocked to see a professional player with his own website giving up on this play once you get to the river like a little girl.
I mean, if you want to tell me you fold (I mean check) here with half your stack in, well, I have to respect that. But I am surprised that is your stance honestly.
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Jurn8
Legend
Silver Level
confirmed no logic
the idea was to float and bet turns when checked to, the river is probably the worst card in the deck, go ahead burn money by shipping rivers as he calling range only gets strong on the river.
also given the fact he only needs to be right about ~34% of the time here, he is never folding
bgomez89
Resident Thugmaster
Silver Level
pushing makes no sense. If you're bluffing, you're not going to fold out better since kk+ bluff catches and obv Qx calls. Maybe even JJ would call because I have no idea what we rep on the river other than bluffs and Qx also it's not that much to call. I think, as I said earlier, you'd be bluffing with the best hand and that's dumbYou already have half your stack in the pot, then you are going to waive the white flag and say "I got no game"? If you have much deeper stacks, ok, check away.
I am one of the bigger old school nits, but if you do not push here on the river, you do not belong playing poker. If he calls he calls, but checking is about as bad as it gets, unless you need the last $12 and change to buy your next meal.
I mean, I believe he has the Q and I know his real hand
acky100
Legend
Silver Level
Generally you're right, there is less 3betting at FR as a whole, but this example shows perfectly well that some guys will 3bet you just as much if not even more than all you crazy 6 maxxers. So if you can justify calling at 6max here you can justify it just as much at FR, the only thing that really matters regardless of how many people at the table is the numbers on your hud. This guy is 3betting steals 19%, if he's 3betting anything over like 8% in the blinds he's clearly bluffing a shit ton, if he's 3betting 6% he's also clearly making moves too.
I probably fold for the most part myself just because im not bothered about losing 3bb and we dont have to win them all just because we know he is 3betting a ton and probably exploiting people, good for him. But i also call and try and take pots away IP and i also 4bet bluff here too if the guy is folding to 4bets, which if he's 3betting like 10% + in the blinds he most likely will be doing it thinking he's awesome from reading some 3betting articles on 2p2 but will also not realise that when someone 4bets him he's folding like 80% of the time. I love these guys, they try and boss people around but fold to any aggression.
Anyways, calling isnt terrible i'd just rather know how he plays post flop, calling flop is fine if you expect him to cbet with all his bluffs (which he will most likely) and give up on turns. Turn isn't bad, id expect him to fold a shit ton when he checks to us, when he calls though i just really dont fancy shoving the river, You've probably made some +EV plays against this guy if you planned it for the right reasons, just check it back, see what he is 3betting you with instead of shoving hoping he hasn't took a sexy line and owned you with a monster this time or hoping he doesnt get sticky with some weird SDV hand when he convinces himself you're bluffing him. when he calls the turn bet its clear he has either SDV or something pretty good. (he's not gonna oop float with air)
wow sorry for writing an essay i've been drinking and left my screen on this so have just been adding thoughts to it over time.
tl;dr
- baduib thinks 100% of FR players 3bet only AA and KK but generally has really good poker advice, so i'm not having a rant at you i <3 you.
-fold pre unless you have some good reads of how he plays in 3bet pots oop.
-add some 4bet bluffs in to stop being exploited if you feel like it's happening every orbit or two.
-still dont worry about being exploited, you could even let him exploit you every time he 3bets you light and still crush the games.
-dont drink and hang out in HA
- i dont like shoving the river here
WEC
Legend
Silver Level
Very nice post and well reasoned
Deco
Legend
Silver Level
7% total
19% vs steals
Flatting AJ here is defo ok even if it returns a negative winrate when filtered.
When we steal here and we fold to a resteal we are losing 3bb for a whopping -300bb/100 hands. If flatting AJ loses me only 299bb/100 hands it's an EV+ move.
sixpeppers
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Pretty big fan of this reasoning. If you feel like the opponent is beating up on you, they are probably running hot, especially if their stats are as mellow as you described. It is important to play back and this is a good hand to do it with but make sure your opponent is actually playing loose and not just running good, otherwise you are making errors. I don't mind your line but here is an even crazier idea, check back the turn and bet the river when checked to
this represents qx and middle pairs and it also gives him a better defined range if he doesn't bet out on the river. Overall this is a loosish play by you that is important to make against good aggressive opponents but high variance and could be tilting if you fail, just avoid the tilt and feel comfortable about ensuring you don't get ran over by villain.