This is a discussion on $200 NLHE Full Ring: Top two calling down triple barrel or naw? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; Hero dealt :8s4: :9s4: UTG+2 w/ $746 stack
UTG+1 opens $7 w/ $215 stack, I call, folds around
F: :8c4: :9h4: :3s4: ($17)
UTG+1 bets $17, I
UTG+1 opens $7 w/ $215 stack, I call, folds around
UTG+1 bets $17, I call
UTG+1 bets $51, I call
UTG+1 goes all in for $140, I?
Thank U 4 Posting
So why not 3 bet the 89s?
Does this Villain 4 bet often?
Is the V a calling station so you knew you could not get them to fold a pair post flop?
Was the table so tight you knew you would not go multiway with what might be a dominated flush draw?
So why not raise the flop?
Why not try to build a pot and protect a vulnerable 2 pair?
Were you trapping?
If so why are we not all in on the turn?
When the V bets into the straight card on the turn V has 215 -7-17-51=140
U call pot is 153 you shove for 140 more they are getting 2-1 to call so folds are not a certainty here and if they do fold over pairs like QQ we are fine they still have 18% on the turn.
This V bet pot every street so folding the river is not obvious here. Players that bet like this on that turn can think AA is the nuts on the river. They also can have AKc AQc and shove river.
So we have to ask why pot every street?
If they had a set why pot the flop and the turn putting max pressure on most of your range?
If they had the draw on the flop-JT- pot bet is possible but why pot the turn when pot size bets get more folds and they just made the nuts?
If we know our V well we can trap for stacks with 2 pair here which means we are never folding the river.
If we do not know our V really well we want to take action on the flop so we know where we are in the hand and to control the pot size if we get a sick runout like A K Q J on turn which could give our V sets.
re: Poker & $200 NLHE Full Ring: Top two calling down triple barrel or naw?
Limp with + 300bb from UTG2 and proper middle connectors is marginal poker IMHO. At least we need to dominate a greater number of positions to play a passive line, with a hand as interesting and fair as 89s. I think you have a pretty wide calling range preflop. Unless you consider including premium hands limping preflop as well, your range will be unbalanced most of the time, and your opponents will be able to read you more easily when holding a monster.
On the flop, villain throws the first barrel. A bit suspicious size considering the texture of the board. Your call becomes vulnerable here. And at this moment you must ask yourself with which hands are you floating now, that the villain can be sure that he is winning. Assuming you have a wide range preflop, you could do it with 66-77 which is not a relevant hand for villain, and he could easily continue shooting with pockets like JJ + and therefore, he could represent the best draws for this texture.
The turn is a bad fairway for your range, because now the number of combos is halved: 7-7, and the villain's bluffs have improved. So far we have balanced on the low side of the board with 56s, but this is highly unlikely, because this hand should not be here as we had to 3-bet preflop, to compensate for our strength disadvantage with respect to the following positions. (again I recommend 3-bet with 89s from early positions).
So now we are essentially representing a slow played set, for which villain must believe that we have no fold equity at this point, if we decide to continue.
But on the river the villain throws the last barrel and according to the interpretations we made, we are being dominated in most of these rivers. The Q favors rank V because it now unlocks JT.
As played this is closer to being a fold IMO, considering the entire sequence of the hand.
From UTG+2 I prefer to just fold this hand. There are just to many players left behind, who could wake up with a big hand and 3-bet. Or for that matter 4-bet, if you put in a 3-bet.
You flopped top two on a rainbow board, and he bet full pot. He is kind of doing a great job building the pot for you, but even so I still prefer to put in a raise. The goal here is to stack an overpair, and its very likely, he has just that, when he opened from early position and then bet full pot on a texture like this. And there are some action killers, that can come on the turn, as well as cards, that are not so much fun for you either. Maybe he has JJ, and an A slows him down. That kind of thing. Since he bet so large, you can make your raise kind of small like maybe 40-45. Then you bet around half pot on the turn and jam most rivers.
7c is one of those cards, that are not to funny, because now JT got there, which was pretty much the only strong flopped draw. Its somewhat unlikely though, that he opened that hand from early position, so as played I would simply jam now. The issue with still slowplaying is, that now the board got really wet and dangerous with a bunch of river cards putting out a 1-liner to a straight, and some completing the backdoor flush as well.
I still dont see many hands, you lose to here. Q9 is kind of unlikely, he would bet flop and turn for this size. JT is kind of unlikely, he would open from UTG+1. So basically I guess, its 33 or QQ, which is only 6 combos. And if he can play this way with QQ, he can also do the same with KK or AA. So for me this is a slam dunk call, but I would not have gotten to the river with this much stack left behind, since I would have raised the flop or jammed the turn.