$2 NLHE Full Ring: Is this a bet or check??

[Mdf1992]

Hi All! I've had a few situations just like this recently, and so I figured I should try to understand it better. To me, a situation like this, once the flop comes, is a check/call type of situation, not a leading out situation, right? Or do y'all ever lead out/bet when you just need one more suited card to come? I guess it also maybe depends if you had two overcards to the flop on top of having the strong draw, and maybe other factors too? But in a general sense, do y'all check a position like this usually, or bet? Like I said, I ask because I've faced a few situations like this recently and have checked and lost the hands, whereas I think if I would have bet then I could've taken this down? But idk. Any input appreciated. Thanks!

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 202 BB
BB: 99 BB
Hero (UTG): 181.5 BB
UTG+1: 95.5 BB
MP: 100 BB
MP+1: 47 BB
MP+2: 63.5 BB
CO: 166 BB
BTN: 118 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♦ 7♦

Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, MP calls 2.5 BB, MP+1 calls 2.5 BB, MP+2 calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold, SB calls 2 BB, fold

Flop: (13.5 BB, 5 players) 3♦ 9♦ J♥
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, MP+1 checks, MP+2 bets 7.5 BB, fold, Hero calls 7.5 BB, fold, fold

Turn: (28.5 BB, 2 players) 8♣
Hero checks, MP+2 checks

River: (28.5 BB, 2 players) 8♥
Hero checks, MP+2 checks

Hero shows A♦ 7♦ (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 62%, Flop 54%, Turn 41%)
MP+2 shows K♠ 3♠ (Two Pair, Eights and Threes)
(Pre 38%, Flop 46%, Turn 59%)
MP+2 wins 27.5 BB

 

[Mdf1992]

I believe the course I’m in would classify this type of hand as a “category 3 hand” which is a drawing hand with which we use as a semi bluff bet in this situation. And the reasoning is because this helps balance us out for when we have our category 1 hands which are our strongest hands with which we want to bet for value. Do y’all agree that this hand is a good bluff candidate in which to help balance myself out? And if so, does that mean I always use these sorts of drawing hands as bluffs? I can understand why I need some semi bluffs because otherwise they will always know that if I bet here, that I’m very strong, and I’ll never get paid off. But I guess I’m just wondering does that mean I should always semi bluff bet here with a hand like this?

Or should I scratch everything I said and do you see this more as a check call type of hand?

 

[fundiver199]

I typically bet in a situation like this. I dont expect to pick it up very often, but this also does not really matter, since we usually have good equity against whoever might continue. The way, I look at it, is, that its unlikely to get checked through, and I am obviusly not going to check-fold my nut flushdraw. And then I will rather keep the betting lead than go into a check-call mode.

The advantage of keeping the betting lead is, that I start to tell a story already on the flop, and then I can more convincingly represent a big hand later. On this particular turn card I would usually barrel again, because you picked up a gutshot. Its to the low end of a 1-liner, so its kind of crappy, but its still a little extra something, and with his exact hand you might actually have gotten him to lay it down. Now instead it went into check-check mode, and you allowed him to get to showdown and win with bottom pair.

Now admittedly bluffing is not always the best idea at 2NL, since some players are bad enough to call you all the way down with any piece of the board. But I am talking about how to play against someone, who are using a slightly reasonable strategy, like what you will find more often at any other limit than 2NL.

Its not terrible to check the flop though, and if you ask a solver, I would not be surpriced, if it used a mixed strategy to have the nut flushdraws in both its betting range and its checking range. From a theoretical point of view its also a problem, if you can never have a flush on a monotone board, because you checked the flop. But at 2NL and the rest of the micros you dont need to worry that much about getting exploited, so for me its fine to mostly play all your good draws with aggression

 

[Mdf1992]

I typically bet in a situation like this. I dont expect to pick it up very often, but this also does not really matter, since we usually have good equity against whoever might continue. The way, I look at it, is, that its unlikely to get checked through, and I am obviusly not going to check-fold my nut flushdraw. And then I will rather keep the betting lead than go into a check-call mode.

The advantage of keeping the betting lead is, that I start to tell a story already on the flop, and then I can more convincingly represent a big hand later. On this particular turn card I would usually barrel again, because you picked up a gutshot. Its to the low end of a 1-liner, so its kind of crappy, but its still a little extra something, and with his exact hand you might actually have gotten him to lay it down. Now instead it went into check-check mode, and you allowed him to get to showdown and win with bottom pair.

Now admittedly bluffing is not always the best idea at 2NL, since some players are bad enough to call you all the way down with any piece of the board. But I am talking about how to play against someone, who are using a slightly reasonable strategy, like what you will find more often at any other limit than 2NL.

Its not terrible to check the flop though, and if you ask a solver, I would not be surpriced, if it used a mixed strategy to have the nut flushdraws in both its betting range and its checking range. From a theoretical point of view its also a problem, if you can never have a flush on a monotone board, because you checked the flop. But at 2NL and the rest of the micros you dont need to worry that much about getting exploited, so for me its fine to mostly play all your good draws with aggression

Thanks so much for this. Very helpful to hear your logic walkthrough of this type of situation! Cheers