$2 NLHE 6-max: Pre AA, how to get max. Value ?

wrzlbrnft

wrzlbrnft

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How to get a maximum value with Preflop AA ?
I tended to slowplay with AA, which leads to be beaten too often. I learned my lesson...

Here I was succesful, but could I have generated more value?

Hero CO ( $1.96 )
BTN ( $1.91 )
SB ( $0.78 )
BB ( $2.11 )
UTG ( $1.79 )

Dealing down cards
Hero [ Ad, As ]
UTG raises [$0.06]
Hero calls [$0.06]
all orthers fold

flop [ 9s, 9h, 4s ]
UTG bets [$0.09]
Hero raises [$0.18]
UTG calls [$0.09]

turn [ 6s ]
UTG checks
Hero bets [$0.10]
UTG calls [$0.10]

river [ 2s ]
UTG checks
Hero bets [$0.35]
UTG calls [$0.35]

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/1aIwbpA

I had no information about Villain. He opend the pot and called my raise after flop, I put his range on pocketpairs 99+
Turn: He called my raise, I extended his range to a flush
River: After getting the nutflush, and Villain checks, what would you do to get maximum value? would you go All In ? or his check was a trap because he holds quads 9 ?
I betted half potsize, Thanks for your opinions.
 
S

Sidetracked

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Slow playing AA preflop is very last Millennium.

As has been stated by all of the reputable poker training material for a long time now, when you have AA, start trying to build a big pot.
 
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300HPGOD

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I think you could have got a lot more here even if the villain didnt have QQ. First, I think it is better in the long run to raise here pre. You will get called a lot by the initial raiser and create a larger pot that will allow you to bet larger on later streets.

The flop is one where I dont think you should be raising. Unless villain has a pocket pair which at this moment we dont know how really strong they are since we only flatted pre, they will fold a lot to this raise unless they have 9x. The way this hand has been played up to now I dont want villain to fold and if they have some random Ax hand which I know we block but they still could have some or KQ or KJ they are just folding on the flop without spades. Here as played I would prefer just calling behind and looking at the turn to build a pot. Also we can worry a little less about the flush draw since we know villain doesnt have Ax of spades which cuts down on their two spade hands and we have the backdoor if a spade should happen to come on the turn.

On the turn as played I would bet much more than you did. You raised on the flop which I disagree with but then bet smaller here on the turn then the flop raise. There are many worse one spade hands that will call half pot here and many one pair hands (like what the villain has) that will call a bet here so I would fire around half pot here.

On the river as played Im fine with the sizing but I think you can go bigger. Yes there are sets that are now boats that beat you but Im not that concerned about that here. We can target K spade hands and other one spade hands like the pocket pairs villain could have that have a spade. Bet is not bad but I think you can bigger.

My real qualm about how you played is the turn. That small of a bet is not getting enough for where you are in the hand. There are plenty of worse hands that can call there and the more you bet on the turn allows you to bet larger on the river as well. I know we dont have the nuts in this hand but we do have a holding that I would still be betting for value.
 
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gustav197poker

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You've obviously played slow with aces, otherwise it always means 3-bet preflop. And you give him a chance for the villain to turn his queens into a 4-bet bluff. And if the latter happens, you can compromise the villain from preflop with 5-bet. What I am telling you is not a results-oriented approach, but rather a range analysis. The question is to look for places where you can have bluffs.
Recall that the opener is a closed range from UTG. (Actually at a functional level the V has a range of MP, since 5 hands are played).
Therefore, we must expand our 3-bet range and seek isolation at this table. To call the open raise preflop is detrimental, because our aces block a lot of hands like AK; AQ; AJ. And those hands should make up for their equity disadvantage, relative to the middle pockets we unlock for rank V. So if we only call preflop, our aces run the risk of being devalued. Because if we build a multi way pot, the next positions that call will mostly do so with hands that have implicit equity for postflop, which is negative for us.
Another advantage of 3-bet in preflop is achieving a more efficient game and reduce the bad beats. For example in this texture, your villain could call your flop min raise with a low pocket like 66, thinking you have a flush draws and then on the river, the V has enough capacity to bluff. Because a high flush is very likely to call. Situation that could be avoided when you 3-bet preflop + continuation bet on the flop.
Greetings.
 
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eetenor

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How to get a maximum value with Preflop AA ?
I tended to slowplay with AA, which leads to be beaten too often. I learned my lesson...

Here I was succesful, but could I have generated more value?

Hero CO ( $1.96 )
BTN ( $1.91 )
SB ( $0.78 )
BB ( $2.11 )
UTG ( $1.79 )

Dealing down cards
Hero [ Ad, As ]
UTG raises [$0.06]
Hero calls [$0.06]
all orthers fold

flop [ 9s, 9h, 4s ]
UTG bets [$0.09]
Hero raises [$0.18]
UTG calls [$0.09]

turn [ 6s ]
UTG checks
Hero bets [$0.10]
UTG calls [$0.10]

river [ 2s ]
UTG checks
Hero bets [$0.35]
UTG calls [$0.35]

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/1aIwbpA

I had no information about Villain. He opend the pot and called my raise after flop, I put his range on pocketpairs 99+
Turn: He called my raise, I extended his range to a flush
River: After getting the nutflush, and Villain checks, what would you do to get maximum value? would you go All In ? or his check was a trap because he holds quads 9 ?
I betted half potsize, Thanks for your opinions.

Thank you for posting.

When playing 6 max our open ranges and 3 bet ranges are wider than 9 handed therefore when we are holding AA we are always 3 betting UTG opens.
If the V has KK or QQ or AK we may get stacks in preflop.
Also we cannot get much value post flop from AK/s AQ/s AJ/s when they miss and they will miss often because we have AA so we need to get that value preflop.

When we have AA we want to win stacks so our strategy is dependent on exactly that. If we flat it is because we will get the stack on the flop or turn. The problem is the pot is so tiny preflop that the only way we stack our V is if the flop comes perfect and they have KK QQ JJ or are very aggressive bluffers. Even then the V might not stack off with over pairs when we try to get $1.90 into a post flop pot of $.17.
As you have experienced trying to get 3 streets of value from AA in low stakes games often ends up with the villain making 2 pair or better by the river.

Slow playing AA is you flatting preflop. Then you min raised the flop. That is also slow playing it. Then you bet .10 into a 49.5bb pot which is also slow playing it.
Slow playing does not mean just checking- it means checking or betting in a way that allows your V to get to the river without risking their stack. At no time did you put the villains stack at risk while holding the best hand preflop -most likely the best hand on the flop and the nut draw best 2 pair hand turn.

If we lose to 99 here for stacks by being aggressive that is fine that is variance.
Winning so little -.69- with AA pre and a nut flush by the river is what kills our ROI.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
wrzlbrnft

wrzlbrnft

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Thanks for your very helpful comments :icon_thum
 
TheBigFinn

TheBigFinn

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How to get a maximum value with Preflop AA ?
I tended to slowplay with AA, which leads to be beaten too often. I learned my lesson...

Here I was successful, but could I have generated more value?
Hero CO ( $1.96 ) BTN ( $1.91 ) SB ( $0.78 ) BB ( $2.11 ) UTG ( $1.79 ) [QUOTE=Dealing down cards Hero [ Ad said:
UTG raises [$0.06]
Hero calls [$0.06]
all orthers fold
Why just call? hero is lucky he did no start a callalanche. There are very few times when one is SURE to be ahead, AA is one. If one is not 3-betting AA inthe CO, where would you? Hero should make it $0.18
flop [ 9s said:
UTG bets [$0.09]
Hero raises [$0.18]
UTG calls [$0.09]
As played there is $0.15 in the pot and the flop is just OK Spade flush draw and low cards. My first thought was, "This kind of flop is unlikely to bring much action." UTG bets .6 pot which is good news. Unless Villain has a random 9 or a pair of 4s, Hero is ahead. The re-raise is to small. After Hero's call there is $0.33 in the pot and Hero's re-raise is only 1/5 of that. Hero should make it ~$0.30. The money needs to go in early against flush draws.
turn [ 6s said:
UTG checks
Hero bets [$0.10]
UTG calls [$0.10]
As played there is $0.33 in the pot and the flush draw came in, Hero bet only 1/3 pot, We want calls and I doubt Villain calls nuch on the turn with nothing anything less than 2 pair, I would bet $0.20
river [ 2s said:
UTG checks
Hero bets [$0.35]
UTG calls [$0.35]
As played there is $0.53 in the potI am surprised to see a call with the 4-flush on the board.


I had no information about Villain. He opened the pot and called my raise after flop, I put his range on pocketpairs 99+
Turn: He called my raise, I extended his range to a flush
River: After getting the nutflush, and Villain checks, what would you do to get maximum value? would you go All In ? or his check was a trap because he holds quads 9 ?
I betted half potsize, Thanks for your opinions.
 
Z

zuker

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playing such way you lose value. raise preflop, raise/bet flop
 
L

liviuplayspoker

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You could have 3bet pre, i mean if you have a read on him that hes folding too mich against 3bets i would also call. On the Flop i would raise to 30+, i think large bets are important!
 
R

ronn6583

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It's better to 3bet for value pre-flop.
Couples 99 were definitely not worth fearing.
But the full house was worth it, since the action is now being held on pokerstars, win 5 hands with 2,3,4 or 5 and get an item (trash can).
On the river with a flush, only strong spades could answer. Therefore, it is better to bet pot.
 
jaworek1405

jaworek1405

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Yeah, slow play pre flop is very risky move. You have to be very confident your skill to play like this. Raise on the flop should be bigger, about 3x. You shouldn't afraid flush draw on the flop, because from early postion like utg players don't raise too much suited connector cards, but on 5 players on the table they raise a little more loose, so you should remember about it. So IMO better 3 bet pre flop AA, because more possible that he won't defend hand his with suited connector hands. GL :)
 
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