This is a discussion on $2 NLHE 6-max: Facing a Shove Preflop with JJ within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; In this Hand I have JJ in the small blind. The original raiser is a TAG and the Player to Call my 3Bet is a
In this Hand I have JJ in the small blind. The original raiser is a TAG and the Player to Call my 3Bet is a unknown playing his second hand on the table.
I 3bet big against the TAG because I knew he would have a strong enough hand to call in position. What catches me off guard is the unknown flatting my large 3bet leaving the player in the CO with a huge pot to go All-in.
I fold in this spot because I didn't think JJs had enough equity to go All-in against 2 players.
I'm not sure if I'm playing a little too weak here. Let me know what you think
Personally, I think your 3 bet was the mistake here, since the opponent was unknown. Chances are he's loose aggressive, and you'd have been up against AT-AK or a pair (any) - we've all played against these players often enough to know that a very strong play doesn't always mean a very strong hand. But if you aren't prepared to call a 4-bet, don't make a 3. Play your JJ as if it were a small pair: call, and see the flop.
Nice hand. I don't think your 3 bet is particularly big at all given that you are out of position and there were two limpers in front of the raise. You made just under a 3x raise. You could easily have added an other BB for being OOP and another BB for each limper. Had you made it 4x I would say it was large. I very much disagree that we can only 3 bet if we can call a 4 bet or get it in pre. If that's the case our 3 bet range will be something like QQ+, AK and we will be very easy to play against. There is nothing wrong with having a 3 bet / fold range especially when the alternative is to go 4 ways to the flop OOP with JJ. If we don't flop a set, chances are we just donated our 6 BB anyway. Comments thus far seem results oriented. Out of the last 10 times you've 3 bet how many times have you gotten 4 bet? I'll bet the answer is less than 2. There will probably be at least that many times where your 3 bet takes it down with no flop, no rake. Then the times you get called and win with a cbet. Obviously there will also be times you get called and lose. It's all part of the game. Only 3 betting hands that can jam pre is adjusting in the wrong direction in my opinion. Unless you are getting 4 bet jammed on relentlessly, but I seriously doubt that's the case.
Second point, even though you describe main V as TAG he is raising from the CO so his range isn't super narrow or I would have expected you to label him a nit. He should have 88-TT here, AT, AJ, some other suited broadways all of which you have crushed. When you flat here you let his whole range pretend to be the top of his range and likely go 4 ways out of position making it very hard for you to realize your equity. I would flat 77-99 here and 3 bet TT+ as far as pairs go.
Lastly I tend to feel that pocket pairs sometimes go slightly up in value as the number of players interested in the pot increases. Nothing scientific here and I could be wrong but in my experience lots of players, especially in the lower limits, favor big cards and Ax pre flop and want to raise and call to see a flop. If several players have Ax for example then of course it's harder for them to hit an A on the flop so your made hands that don't need to improve to have showdown value may hold up more. Obviously there are plenty of times in a 3 way pot where everyone has a pocket pair but combination wise it's just easier to have KJ for example (16 combos) than JJ (6 combos) so unpaired cards are more likely in general.
I also like the 3-bet here, and as others have said it could even have been a little larger. As for reacting to the jam, I am very close between folding and calling it off, because the limper has dumped almost 20BB of dead money into the pot.
I want to get in there and contend for that money, and unless CO is stupid, he wants to do that as well. So I think, we are looking at a much wider get-it-in range than in a "normal" hand without limpers. Its almost like a bounty tournament, where people go crazy, when they can score a bounty.
So yeah... not exactly a big mistake folding, but personally I would probably have called and hoped to be up against an AK/AQ type of hand. If the limper call as well, that is totally fantastic, because he probably have something silly like pocket 8`s, that he just cant fold. So lets gaaaamble it up!
Finally you say, that CO is a TAG, but what are you basing that on? This is a situation, where I will really use my HUD, and the data provided could make me go either way, when CO jam. If his 3-bet is like 5% of less, this is a snap fold, because then he is probably not 4-bet jamming light.