$2 NL HE Full Ring: Slow playing 66 in MP, IP against BB

[lacroir]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.01/$.02

Table Format

Full (8-10 seats)

VP$IP

15

PFR

10

AF

2

Currency

$

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 15/10/2
I played a cash game today and there was a particular hand which got me thinking a bit. Basically, my opponent tilted and insulted me after this hand and he wrote after my river 3-bet: "waiting for flush draw, against odds... ****". This, I don't care, if it feels good to him, do that, it's their shame. I was just curious if it was a good play.

I was in a middle position and open limped with pocket sixes, villain on BB just checks. There he c-bets and I slow play and just call both on flop and turn as I hit set.
I decided to slow play because:

1. I was blocking his straight draws quite well
2. My set was strong enough, even if he continued with Tx I had good chances to win
3. The only thing I had to worry about is a flush draw but I also thought, well, I also have a possible full house later, so... Also, I had quite low VPiP and didn't limp often so if he even had some suited connectors, I could have imagined to have at least a small raise preflop.

Then, on river I fired a 3-bet and then he folded and tilted.
The detailed hand:

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

victory6508 (UTG): $1.89 (95 bb)
wolfmoonwander (UTG+1): $2.48 (124 bb)
Lacroir (MP): $4.57 (229 bb)
M1schk477 (MP+1): $5.59 (280 bb)
deileon (LP): $2.13 (107 bb)
telesforo21 (CO): $2.30 (115 bb)
sve22slav (BU): $1.19 (60 bb)
heureka3 (SB): $0.81 (41 bb)
szerszenie (BB): $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is MP with 6♣ 6♦
2 players fold, Lacroir (MP) calls $0.02, 5 players fold, szerszenie (BB) checks

Flop: ($0.05) 6♠ 4♥ T♥ (2 players)
szerszenie (BB) bets $0.03, Lacroir (MP) calls $0.03

Turn: ($0.11) 5♠ (2 players)
szerszenie (BB) bets $0.06, Lacroir (MP) calls $0.06

River: ($0.23) J♥ (2 players)
szerszenie (BB) bets $0.07, Lacroir (MP) raises to $0.30, szerszenie (BB) folds

Total pot: $0.37 (Rake: $0.01)
Lacroir (MP) wins $0.36

What do you think? Would you have played it differently?

 

[Station_Master]

You made a monster hand but only won a small pot.

Firstly dont limp pre, raise. The pot would have been 3x larger had you raised.

Versus donk I would usually raise flop. If not flop then definitely turn with two flushes and lots of straight draws available.

By the river you lose to flushes and straights so raising is too thin, should just call.

Fortunately it looks like villain overplayed JT or similar, but you could have made more by raising an earlier street.

 

[Aballinamion]

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 15/10/2
I played a cash game today and there was a particular hand which got me thinking a bit. Basically, my opponent tilted and insulted me after this hand and he wrote after my river 3-bet: "waiting for flush draw, against odds... ****". This, I don't care, if it feels good to him, do that, it's their shame. I was just curious if it was a good play.

I was in a middle position and open limped with pocket sixes, villain on BB just checks. There he c-bets and I slow play and just call both on flop and turn as I hit set.
I decided to slow play because:

1. I was blocking his straight draws quite well
2. My set was strong enough, even if he continued with Tx I had good chances to win
3. The only thing I had to worry about is a flush draw but I also thought, well, I also have a possible full house later, so... Also, I had quite low VPiP and didn't limp often so if he even had some suited connectors, I could have imagined to have at least a small raise preflop.

Then, on river I fired a 3-bet and then he folded and tilted.
The detailed hand:

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

victory6508 (UTG): $1.89 (95 bb)
wolfmoonwander (UTG+1): $2.48 (124 bb)
Lacroir (MP): $4.57 (229 bb)
M1schk477 (MP+1): $5.59 (280 bb)
deileon (LP): $2.13 (107 bb)
telesforo21 (CO): $2.30 (115 bb)
sve22slav (BU): $1.19 (60 bb)
heureka3 (SB): $0.81 (41 bb)
szerszenie (BB): $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Lacroir) is MP with 6♣ 6♦
2 players fold, Lacroir (MP) calls $0.02, 5 players fold, szerszenie (BB) checks

Flop: ($0.05) 6♠ 4♥ T♥ (2 players)
szerszenie (BB) bets $0.03, Lacroir (MP) calls $0.03

Turn: ($0.11) 5♠ (2 players)
szerszenie (BB) bets $0.06, Lacroir (MP) calls $0.06

River: ($0.23) J♥ (2 players)
szerszenie (BB) bets $0.07, Lacroir (MP) raises to $0.30, szerszenie (BB) folds

Total pot: $0.37 (Rake: $0.01)
Lacroir (MP) wins $0.36

What do you think? Would you have played it differently?

Nice hand and well played. I hope you are opened to healthy criticism this is the reason you posted. And continue posting, this is good to me, to you and all the poker community engaged on learning.
Right off the bat I say that you haven’t questioned yourself about limping! This is not good mate, no matter how much reasons you have to do so.
That being said, we should be raising to 2.5x or 3x: by limping we are giving both the blinds (SB has to pay only 0.5 BB and BB has to pay nothing) a huge change to see the flop for free and hit whatever they have. We must charge the blinds, make them pay the price to see a flop or just collect the blinds.
Check CardsChat course on the power of aggression, please.
On the flop BB bets and we have no idea what this bet means. BB can have basically anything. We don’t know it because we haven’t raised preflop.
Now, giving this is a coordinated board and we don’t own the nuts, we shouldn’t be slow playing here ever! We must raise for the flush draw or hearts (we don’t own any hearts on our range), and for the straight draws.
What straight draws we are blocking? If we had 5x, 7x, 8x, 9x we would be blocking but here we are fragile so we must’ve raised for value and protection.
On the turn it follows the same idea of the flop, we shouldn’t be slowing here, this is a terrible idea at the micros when we don’t own the nuts but instead a very strong value hand.
On the river completes a flush and now we should be calling more than raising. Why? Because villain can fold any losing hands (as in fact, villain did it) and call us only with hands that have us beat.

Best regards;

 

[Poker Orifice]

What do you think? Would you have played it differently?

Yes.

Don't pay much attention to chat from villain (unless it can give you an edge/information somehow)

 

[lacroir]

You made a monster hand but only won a small pot.

Firstly dont limp pre, raise. The pot would have been 3x larger had you raised.

Versus donk I would usually raise flop. If not flop then definitely turn with two flushes and lots of straight draws available.

By the river you lose to flushes and straights so raising is too thin, should just call.

Fortunately it looks like villain overplayed JT or similar, but you could have made more by raising an earlier street.

Thank you! Yeah, it could have been a lot worse if they hit straight or flush and based on your and Aballinamion's comments it definitely seems I should have not slow played in this case. I thought I have the nuts (or rather, I knew it's not nuts but definitely something strong) and didn't think about defending it.

 

[lacroir]

Nice hand and well played. I hope you are opened to healthy criticism this is the reason you posted. And continue posting, this is good to me, to you and all the poker community engaged on learning.
Right off the bat I say that you haven’t questioned yourself about limping! This is not good mate, no matter how much reasons you have to do so.
That being said, we should be raising to 2.5x or 3x: by limping we are giving both the blinds (SB has to pay only 0.5 BB and BB has to pay nothing) a huge change to see the flop for free and hit whatever they have. We must charge the blinds, make them pay the price to see a flop or just collect the blinds.
Check CardsChat course on the power of aggression, please.
On the flop BB bets and we have no idea what this bet means. BB can have basically anything. We don’t know it because we haven’t raised preflop.
Now, giving this is a coordinated board and we don’t own the nuts, we shouldn’t be slow playing here ever! We must raise for the flush draw or hearts (we don’t own any hearts on our range), and for the straight draws.
What straight draws we are blocking? If we had 5x, 7x, 8x, 9x we would be blocking but here we are fragile so we must’ve raised for value and protection.
On the turn it follows the same idea of the flop, we shouldn’t be slowing here, this is a terrible idea at the micros when we don’t own the nuts but instead a very strong value hand.
On the river completes a flush and now we should be calling more than raising. Why? Because villain can fold any losing hands (as in fact, villain did it) and call us only with hands that have us beat.

Best regards;

Thank you! Yes, definitely, I'm open for criticism, this is why I posted Definitely there's still a lot to learn, so...

In general I say: "don't open limp but if I open then I should raise". What mislead me in this case is that I went through to the CardsChat course you mentioned before and there was a lesson where we talked about the cases where we should call with low pocket pairs - the 20:1 ratio, here: https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/become-a-winning-poker-player/day-9/.

The problem is that maybe sixes are "not that low" pocket pairs so definitely worth the raise and the other problem is that the 20:1 ratio might only play when I call and not open-limp as I understand now?

I didn't block any straight draws, I don't know from where did I have that reasoning 😅 I definitely overlooked something.

So, based on your inputs: pre-flop raise, flop/turn raise and river call would have been the best play.

In general: do you consider slow playing preflop with limping a good play in any case? E.g. with very low pocket pairs like 22-55? Or no open-limping but raising in that case and if there was a raise/limp before me, then apply the 20:1 "rule" for calling?

 

[Aballinamion]

Thank you! Yes, definitely, I'm open for criticism, this is why I posted Definitely there's still a lot to learn, so...

In general I say: "don't open limp but if I open then I should raise". What mislead me in this case is that I went through to the CardsChat course you mentioned before and there was a lesson where we talked about the cases where we should call with low pocket pairs - the 20:1 ratio, here: https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/become-a-winning-poker-player/day-9/.

The problem is that maybe sixes are "not that low" pocket pairs so definitely worth the raise and the other problem is that the 20:1 ratio might only play when I call and not open-limp as I understand now?

I didn't block any straight draws, I don't know from where did I have that reasoning 😅 I definitely overlooked something.

So, based on your inputs: pre-flop raise, flop/turn raise and river call would have been the best play.

In general: do you consider slow playing preflop with limping a good play in any case? E.g. with very low pocket pairs like 22-55? Or no open-limping but raising in that case and if there was a raise/limp before me, then apply the 20:1 "rule" for calling?

I’m aware of CardsChat course, it was pretty good to me but we must consider that most of this excellent course is based on tournaments.
My answer is this: open raise all of your pocket pairs! Use a sizing of 2.5x for when you open 22 and the same sizing for when you open AA!
I don’t consider slow playing a good move at all! Unless you hit the absolute nuts and even so, at the micros we shouldn’t be scared, we must build the pot as soon as possible.
When someone opens behind you and you have a baby pocket pair (22-66) look for the sizing and position before calling! If villain opens to 3.5x from UTG and we are in MP, we are folding 90% of times or more.
Now if we are sitting in the BU and villain opens 2x or 2.5x we can be calling more often for we will realize our equity many times here.
The same goes for when we are in the blinds: avoid to call bigger sizings from the SB specially and call from the BB when villain has a full stack and opens 3x maximum.
If someone limps behind you raise! Raise 2.5x or 3x + 1x (3x + 1x for every limper behind you).
You are going fine, keep posting your hands here and you will get there, have faith!

Best regards;

 

[lacroir]

I’m aware of CardsChat course, it was pretty good to me but we must consider that most of this excellent course is based on tournaments.
My answer is this: open raise all of your pocket pairs! Use a sizing of 2.5x for when you open 22 and the same sizing for when you open AA!
I don’t consider slow playing a good move at all! Unless you hit the absolute nuts and even so, at the micros we shouldn’t be scared, we must build the pot as soon as possible.
When someone opens behind you and you have a baby pocket pair (22-66) look for the sizing and position before calling! If villain opens to 3.5x from UTG and we are in MP, we are folding 90% of times or more.
Now if we are sitting in the BU and villain opens 2x or 2.5x we can be calling more often for we will realize our equity many times here.
The same goes for when we are in the blinds: avoid to call bigger sizings from the SB specially and call from the BB when villain has a full stack and opens 3x maximum.
If someone limps behind you raise! Raise 2.5x or 3x + 1x (3x + 1x for every limper behind you).
You are going fine, keep posting your hands here and you will get there, have faith!

Best regards;

Thank you! Nice, detailed explanation. I will follow your advice