$2 NL HE Full Ring: Double Barrel Bluff Against Villian w/ 83% C-Bet

[PockerGod]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.01/$.02

Table Format

Full (8-10 seats)

VP$IP

24

PFR

17

AF

2

Currency

$

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 24/17/2
The villain c-bet 86% of the time

Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Leshiy559 (UTG): $4.60 (230 bb)
StarsStone (MP): $0.74 (37 bb)
sobve (CO): $1.67 (84 bb)
StunTraps (BU): $2.00 (100 bb)
ppcat (SB): $2.18 (109 bb)
PockerGod (BB): $4.82 (241 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (PockerGod) is BB with K♣ 6♣
Leshiy559 (UTG) raises to $0.05, 4 players fold, PockerGod (BB) calls $0.03

Flop: ($0.11) 9♠ 4♦ 5♣ (2 players)
PockerGod (BB) checks, Leshiy559 (UTG) bets $0.05, PockerGod (BB) raises to $0.18, Leshiy559 (UTG) calls $0.13

Turn: ($0.47) A♣ (2 players)
PockerGod (BB) bets $0.31, Leshiy559 (UTG) calls $0.31

River: ($1.09) 3♠ (2 players)

 

[Station_Master]

It's not a bad play, I probably give up river but you can credibly represent 76 and he likely has some JJ-KK that would fold out

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Pretty standard to defend with any suited K to this sizing.

Flop
I think, your hand is to weak to check-call, and with information, that this opponent C-bet to much (more than the GTO equilibrium), I dont mind using it as a light check-raise. You dont have any actual draw, but you should get a decent amount of direct folds right now, and when he continue, at least you have some backdoors, that can give you equity on the turn.

Or you could spike top pair, which would bring you ahead of hands like 9X and TT-QQ. Your sizing is fine, but I do have a slight preference for going a bit larger and perhaps get a few more folds. It would really suck, if he talks himself into floating in position with two overcards, that beat or even dominate you, like AK or KQ.

Turn
You picked up a flushdraw, and even though the A is a better card for his perceived range, I think, you need to continue. That is kind of the whole idea behind starting a bluff on the flop with backdoors. If you flopped a set, you would also continue firing, hoping that the A improved him to a stronger but still second best hand.

River
You bricked, and as played I think, firing the third barrel is pretty mandatory. You can still tell a convincing story, that you flopped a set, or maybe you were bluffing with 76, and now you just got there. He hardly ever have 76 or for that matter a 2 (neither do you), and if he is hanging on with 9X or TT-KK, he might be willing to let it go now.

 

[gustav197poker]

Preflop
Ok preflop defense, but don't feel obligated to always do it either. It seems like you managed to get yourself a 240bb stack, so being more picky when choosing your preflop range could be another option as well.

Flop
Your x/r line is interesting, although due to the stack sizes being played the raise could be larger. I would do it at 20-25.
Naturally the option for your hand is check fold here.
Since you are working with a range, you should get an idea of the hands that can rise in this texture, such as those that call you.

Turn
Good card to continue with another bet. Now you gain greater equity with nut flush draw. When your V calls his range becomes tighter and includes hands like 9X, TT+.

River
In my opinion, this is where your mistake was. When you played with the intention of bluffing, you should follow that line even if your draw did not improve.
If you check all the hands that continued they are beating you. As played, your opponent will never have worse hands than you.

 

[PockerGod]

Preflop
Pretty standard to defend with any suited K to this sizing.

Flop
I think, your hand is to weak to check-call, and with information, that this opponent C-bet to much (more than the GTO equilibrium), I dont mind using it as a light check-raise. You dont have any actual draw, but you should get a decent amount of direct folds right now, and when he continue, at least you have some backdoors, that can give you equity on the turn.

Or you could spike top pair, which would bring you ahead of hands like 9X and TT-QQ. Your sizing is fine, but I do have a slight preference for going a bit larger and perhaps get a few more folds. It would really suck, if he talks himself into floating in position with two overcards, that beat or even dominate you, like AK or KQ.

Turn
You picked up a flushdraw, and even though the A is a better card for his perceived range, I think, you need to continue. That is kind of the whole idea behind starting a bluff on the flop with backdoors. If you flopped a set, you would also continue firing, hoping that the A improved him to a stronger but still second best hand.

River
You bricked, and as played I think, firing the third barrel is pretty mandatory. You can still tell a convincing story, that you flopped a set, or maybe you were bluffing with 76, and now you just got there. He hardly ever have 76 or for that matter a 2 (neither do you), and if he is hanging on with 9X or TT-KK, he might be willing to let it go now.

Thank you very much for taking your time and helping me out. What sizing do you think I would use on the river bluff?

 

[PockerGod]

Preflop
Ok preflop defense, but don't feel obligated to always do it either. It seems like you managed to get yourself a 240bb stack, so being more picky when choosing your preflop range could be another option as well.

Flop
Your x/r line is interesting, although due to the stack sizes being played the raise could be larger. I would do it at 20-25.
Naturally the option for your hand is check fold here.
Since you are working with a range, you should get an idea of the hands that can rise in this texture, such as those that call you.

Turn
Good card to continue with another bet. Now you gain greater equity with nut flush draw. When your V calls his range becomes tighter and includes hands like 9X, TT+.

River
In my opinion, this is where your mistake was. When you played with the intention of bluffing, you should follow that line even if your draw did not improve.
If you check all the hands that continued they are beating you. As played, your opponent will never have worse hands than you.

Thank you for your response. What sizing would you use on the river bluff?

 

[PockerGod]

It's not a bad play, I probably give up river but you can credibly represent 76 and he likely has some JJ-KK that would fold out

Thank you for your reply. How come you would fold out on the river?

 

[Poker Orifice]

Thank you for your reply. How come you would fold out on the river?

my guess, because it's 2nl

 

[Station_Master]

Thank you for your reply. How come you would fold out on the river?

It's close, but people dont like folding at 5NL so I might not fire

 

[Station_Master]

my guess, because it's 2nl

Haha exactly. For some reason I thought it was 5NL at 2NL even more reason not to bluff!

 

[gustav197poker]

Thank you for your response. What sizing would you use on the river bluff?

If you had a set, what size would you choose to bet OTR. In that case you would want your opponent to call but not fold, so you can get more value. 60% of the pot should be enough. It will depend a lot on what V is like, but in general you don't need a great size for dominated hands to fold. And you can bet even smaller as your perceived range becomes more closed.

 

[PockerGod]

If you had a set, what size would you choose to bet OTR. In that case you would want your opponent to call but not fold, so you can get more value. 60% of the pot should be enough. It will depend a lot on what V is like, but in general you don't need a great size for dominated hands to fold. And you can bet even smaller as your perceived range becomes more closed.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you!

 

[ScooperNova]

I'm checking flop and turn 90% of the time. That's if I'm even still in the hand after the pf raise.

 

[Aballinamion]

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 24/17/2
The villain c-bet 86% of the time

Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Leshiy559 (UTG): $4.60 (230 bb)
StarsStone (MP): $0.74 (37 bb)
sobve (CO): $1.67 (84 bb)
StunTraps (BU): $2.00 (100 bb)
ppcat (SB): $2.18 (109 bb)
PockerGod (BB): $4.82 (241 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (PockerGod) is BB with K♣ 6♣
Leshiy559 (UTG) raises to $0.05, 4 players fold, PockerGod (BB) calls $0.03

Flop: ($0.11) 9♠ 4♦ 5♣ (2 players)
PockerGod (BB) checks, Leshiy559 (UTG) bets $0.05, PockerGod (BB) raises to $0.18, Leshiy559 (UTG) calls $0.13

Turn: ($0.47) A♣ (2 players)
PockerGod (BB) bets $0.31, Leshiy559 (UTG) calls $0.31

River: ($1.09) 3♠ (2 players)

I think you are calling too much from the blinds versus EP. Villain having 83% c-bet flop doesn't mean a lot if we don't own a respectable volume of hands played against it.
If we are bluffing a back door flush like this we are bluffing almost anything. And once you elected to raise flop and bet turn, why did you check river? You should've continued your bluffing, because specially on the river your hand has little showdown value and unless you are very lucky there's no way to get this pot if villain checks back or if villain bets after we checked.
Could you please explain your line of thinking?

 

[Suns of Beaches]

Fold flop, ez game.

And as played, If u play micros and someone already called 2 streets he is likely to call it off anyway on the river, no matter what story u are trying to tell. 3-Barrell Bluffs are not recommended on micro limits imo ( learned that the hard way). So give up on river would be my suggestion.

 

[canbora]

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 24/17/2
The villain c-bet 86% of the time

Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Leshiy559 (UTG): $4.60 (230 bb)
StarsStone (MP): $0.74 (37 bb)
sobve (CO): $1.67 (84 bb)
StunTraps (BU): $2.00 (100 bb)
ppcat (SB): $2.18 (109 bb)
PockerGod (BB): $4.82 (241 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (PockerGod) is BB with K♣ 6♣
Leshiy559 (UTG) raises to $0.05, 4 players fold, PockerGod (BB) calls $0.03

Flop: ($0.11) 9♠ 4♦ 5♣ (2 players)
PockerGod (BB) checks, Leshiy559 (UTG) bets $0.05, PockerGod (BB) raises to $0.18, Leshiy559 (UTG) calls $0.13

Turn: ($0.47) A♣ (2 players)
PockerGod (BB) bets $0.31, Leshiy559 (UTG) calls $0.31

River: ($1.09) 3♠ (2 players)

Here's my opinion for what's its worth. This is obviously tricky, or it wouldn't be here so you nothing is done horribly wrong and this is all totally untestable. With that being said. I like everything you did here. especially for it being 2NL. This is how it goes sometimes.

Could things have been different? Of course.

A check raise on the flop looks weak.

With that being said, a bigger check raise could have been done. But I think you're basically chip dumping at that point.

Third, an obvious third barrel could have been fired. Pot sized bet. Its obvious, but if they have any sense they cant call unless they're sure. Again, I think you're getting called and you're dumping chips lol. I say that despite the fact that they checked. This level is super passive.

I think you lost this hand and I think they had Ax. A low Ax, like A6 or something.

 

[NootNoot]

Fold flop, ez game.

And as played, If u play micros and someone already called 2 streets he is likely to call it off anyway on the river, no matter what story u are trying to tell. 3-Barrell Bluffs are not recommended on micro limits imo ( learned that the hard way). So give up on river would be my suggestion.

Lol, yes. I triple barrelled off a full stack the other day with a missed gutshot against a villain who called me down with K (top pair) 6 kicker (offsuit).

He limped UTG (LJ), one more limp, button raised and I 3 bet from the big blind with AQ suited. Not sure why he was even in the hand at the flop stage or put any money at all into the pot but he was there happily calling away. Must have known I was the kind of idiot to do that.

Thing is, I rarely do that. I'm usually quite passive and predictable.

Just a shame I didn't catch him when I had AK or KQ. He'd have called off everything and paid me big time.

 

[fundiver199]

Thank you very much for taking your time and helping me out. What sizing do you think I would use on the river bluff?

I would just use a standard sizing like the one, you used on the turn. So 2/3 pot or something. If you size up and overbet, your range become much more polarized to basically 76 or nothing, and you would be trying to get him off hands like top pair or better, which is probably to ambitious at 2NL. By maintaining the same size, you can still be valuebetting a set, so you have a wider value range, and anything below top pair should still fold. If he does make a ligth call with a hand like TT, then take a note on him saying "sticky reg" or something similar, and then dont bluff him again anytime soon.

 

[PockerGod]

I think you are calling too much from the blinds versus EP. Villain having 83% c-bet flop doesn't mean a lot if we don't own a respectable volume of hands played against it.
If we are bluffing a back door flush like this we are bluffing almost anything. And once you elected to raise flop and bet turn, why did you check river? You should've continued your bluffing, because specially on the river your hand has little showdown value and unless you are very lucky there's no way to get this pot if villain checks back or if villain bets after we checked.
Could you please explain your line of thinking?

Yes, I can explain my line of thinking. So, the hand does not show what I did on the river, it was cut out. I did end up triple barrel bluffing him. I wanted to get people's opinion without results oriented thinking. I follow exploitative PF charts created by Jonatha Little specifically for micro stakes (I will leave the relevant chart at the bottom of the post). The charts are for 100 bb cash games, I can have a problem when I get into deeper stacked poker due to the charts being limited to around 100 bb play. I did identify ceartin leaks he had and attempted my best to change my strategy to take advantage of those leaks. The villain did not have positional awareness and treated EP and the button very similarly. I wanted to exploit him on the flop by check/raising him on flops that did not favor his range because his cbet was at 86%. When the flop hit w/ 3 middle cards, I believed that was a good check/raise spot. I planned on it being a 1 and done bluff if he called but when I got the flush draw, it seemed like a great double barrel bluff situation. Then on the river I decided to put in the last bluff because it was the only way I could win the hand. I should have included his lack of positional awareness in the initial post but decided not to because my PF charts had me calling regardless of this exploit. I hope this answered your question.

 

[PockerGod]

Fold flop, ez game.

And as played, If u play micros and someone already called 2 streets he is likely to call it off anyway on the river, no matter what story u are trying to tell. 3-Barrell Bluffs are not recommended on micro limits imo ( learned that the hard way). So give up on river would be

Fold flop, ez game.

And as played, If u play micros and someone already called 2 streets he is likely to call it off anyway on the river, no matter what story u are trying to tell. 3-Barrell Bluffs are not recommended on micro limits imo ( learned that the hard way). So give up on river would be my suggestion.

I do disagree, I feel a lot of players micro stakes call too much on the flop and turn but over fold the river. At least the non-nit players. I may be wrong though. Why do you believe triple barrel bluffing is bad?

 

[PockerGod]

Here's my opinion for what's its worth. This is obviously tricky, or it wouldn't be here so you nothing is done horribly wrong and this is all totally untestable. With that being said. I like everything you did here. especially for it being 2NL. This is how it goes sometimes.

Could things have been different? Of course.

A check raise on the flop looks weak.

With that being said, a bigger check raise could have been done. But I think you're basically chip dumping at that point.

Third, an obvious third barrel could have been fired. Pot sized bet. Its obvious, but if they have any sense they cant call unless they're sure. Again, I think you're getting called and you're dumping chips lol. I say that despite the fact that they checked. This level is super passive.

I think you lost this hand and I think they had Ax. A low Ax, like A6 or something.

Thank you for your opinion, it is 100% valued by me. I was worried that taking that kind of line would be a bit spewy, mainly because it is at 2NL. I do plan on moving up in stakes once my bankroll always it. I am trying not to get too caught up in it being 2NL players and try my best to play good fundamental/exploitative poker. I did and up betting the river and used a 2/3 pot raise. Do you think that is too small?

 

[PockerGod]

Lol, yes. I triple barrelled off a full stack the other day with a missed gutshot against a villain who called me down with K (top pair) 6 kicker (offsuit).

He limped UTG (LJ), one more limp, button raised and I 3 bet from the big blind with AQ suited. Not sure why he was even in the hand at the flop stage or put any money at all into the pot but he was there happily calling away. Must have known I was the kind of idiot to do that.

Thing is, I rarely do that. I'm usually quite passive and predictable.

Just a shame I didn't catch him when I had AK or KQ. He'd have called off everything and paid me big time.

Yeah, I have definitely done that too. I really try to only do it against villains I think over fold the river, but it is the worst when they call you down with something marginal.

 

[PockerGod]

I would just use a standard sizing like the one, you used on the turn. So 2/3 pot or something. If you size up and overbet, your range become much more polarized to basically 76 or nothing, and you would be trying to get him off hands like top pair or better, which is probably to ambitious at 2NL. By maintaining the same size, you can still be valuebetting a set, so you have a wider value range, and anything below top pair should still fold. If he does make a ligth call with a hand like TT, then take a note on him saying "sticky reg" or something similar, and then dont bluff him again anytime soon.

That makes sense. Thank you

 

[fundiver199]

Haha exactly. For some reason I thought it was 5NL at 2NL even more reason not to bluff!

I think, opponent type is more important than stakes. 24/17 is a LAG, and a LAG should be able to fold some hands on the river. If we bet and get called by something worse than top pair, then we can take a note and not bluff him again. On a side note its kind of depressing to find LAGs even at 2NL. But it could be a new (most likely russian) player building up his bankroll. Or maybe a bot user? Whatever the reason, this person is playing 2NL, he is not a fish

 

[PockerGod]

I think you are calling too much from the blinds versus EP. Villain having 83% c-bet flop doesn't mean a lot if we don't own a respectable volume of hands played against it.
If we are bluffing a back door flush like this we are bluffing almost anything. And once you elected to raise flop and bet turn, why did you check river? You should've continued your bluffing, because specially on the river your hand has little showdown value and unless you are very lucky there's no way to get this pot if villain checks back or if villain bets after we checked.
Could you please explain your line of thinkinghow pop

I think you are calling too much from the blinds versus EP. Villain having 83% c-bet flop doesn't mean a lot if we don't own a respectable volume of hands played against it.
If we are bluffing a back door flush like this we are bluffing almost anything. And once you elected to raise flop and bet turn, why did you check river? You should've continued your bluffing, because specially on the river your hand has little showdown value and unless you are very lucky there's no way to get this pot if villain checks back or if villain bets after we checked.
Could you please explain your line of thinking?

Also, what range would you use from the BB against UTG?