$2 NL HE 6-max: Zoom- bet on river or check/fold

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Samweis3

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Hello community,

What do you think about my call preflop?
Any comments on flop and turn action?

What do you think about my bet on the river?

Sorry i cannot use CC converter at this moment as I play online from mobile phone

 
Canaldo Kao

Canaldo Kao

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His play was good but when he checked at the end, I wouldn't raise, I think you tried a bluff making him think he hit the flush, but he would never fold those two pair so easily!(y)🙃
 
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Samweis3

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From my opinion he also had KQs or KQo or any other Ax in his range. Probably also any Kxs which did not even hit the flop or only hit the 6 to make a bottom pair.

I would not call it bluff but semi-bluff.

Obviously he could also have 2 diamonds, so I was not willing to bet higher on river but thought this was a right sizing. Obviously to small to let him fold his 2 pair, but probably enough for all other pairs?!

If someone has more ideas about that sizing would be very appreciated.
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
Standard call.

Flop
Also a standard call. We definitely cant fold to a C-bet, when we flopped a pair, even if its bottom or second pair, and even if he can have top pair quite a bit.

Turn
You did not pick up any additional equity, and he fire another bet. At this point I lean towards a fold, but I dont hate calling either. There are two flushdraws now, and he could still be bluffing. However if you call here, your plan should be to fold to a river bet, if he fire again, and you have not improved on one of your 5 outs.

River
This is where, the hand goes completely off the rails. Betting here literally accomplish nothing. If he has a better hand, he is going to call, and if he has worse, he is going to fold. The whole reason, why you called on the turn, was because, he might still be bluffing. So when he check the river, you absolutely have to check back and hope to get shown some sort of busted draw like KJ of spades or whatever. I recommend watching the section in the CC 30 day course about river bets:

 
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Good advice @fundiver199

Inward watching the video straight after you post and then took some hundreds hand to focus on these 2 questions. Hope I can do better decisions by that
 
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I dont hate the river bluff but your size is too small. Villains b,b,x line is super Ax heavy. Also you have the Q blocking some flushes and honestly very few player barrel a flush draw only to check it at the end.

However just because he checked doesn't mean he will fold, he might be planning to check call, but it will be size dependent. For half pot he only needs to be good 25% of the time so will call often. You can credibly represent a flush given your line in the hand and you have Qd, but what size would you bet if you had a flush? Probably bigger right? I think it needs to be 80%+ then villain is put to a decision and may fold (though perhaps not 2 pair as in this hand).

Of course you need to consider your reads too and whether the player is capable of folding top pair.
 
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fundiver199

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I dont hate the river bluff but your size is too small. Villains b,b,x line is super Ax heavy. Also you have the Q blocking some flushes and honestly very few player barrel a flush draw only to check it at the end.
If we are going to turn middle pair into a bluff, the sizing should probably be all-in. That could be an ok play, if the opponent is able to fold top pair. The reason to not bluff is, we should have enough showdown value to check back. And if we dont, we should probably not have called the turn bet.
 
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If we are going to turn middle pair into a bluff, the sizing should probably be all-in. That could be an ok play, if the opponent is able to fold top pair. The reason to not bluff is, we should have enough showdown value to check back. And if we dont, we should probably not have called the turn bet.
It's true we have some showdown value, but not alot as we lose to the logical turn double barrels for value (Ax and sets) and most of the bluffs (flush draws) got there. Sure once in a while he could have QJs that picked up a bdfd and gives up river but sometimes these will be bluffed. I agree calling the turn bet is dicey (probably indifferent between fold and call), but our showdown value decreases with the river card and villain action.

The all-in 3x pot shove will work alot, but it does need to given the amount being risked. I think about pot should get the job done often enough (50%) to be profitable (depending on villain)
 
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fundiver199

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The all-in 3x pot shove will work alot, but it does need to given the amount being risked. I think about pot should get the job done often enough (50%) to be profitable (depending on villain)
Yeah all-in might be a bit to much given the stack depth. There is also a risk, it might be perceived as bluffy and induce a hero call from the exact hands, we want him to fold. The situation, where solvers would typically jam a hand like this is, if Villain bet the river. Then we dont have enough showdown value to call, but we can raise (jam) and turn our hand into a bluff representing the flush. On balance though I think, turning second pair into a bluff at 2NL is a bit to fancy and unnessesary. He could also have a hand like 88 or 99, which he dont know what to do with, so he bet flop and turn but show down on the river. And then we can just check back and win at showdown. I am repeating myself, but I dont think, we are always beat here (even though this time we were), and if we think, his turn betting range is that nutted, we should fold.
 
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Samweis3

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thanks indeed for all the good inputs. You can’t imagine how valuable this is for me who just started cash game again after so many years without poker.

I will post another few hands from today for discussion
 
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fundiver199

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thanks indeed for all the good inputs. You can’t imagine how valuable this is for me who just started cash game again after so many years without poker.
Happy you found it usefull. Just to clarify a bit, when I say, you have showdown value on the river, I dont mean, that you have the best hand like 50% of the time. I agree with Station_Master, that you are beat most of the time. But the issue with bluffing, when we have showdown value, is, that then the opponent need to fold more often. If you bluff with a hand like 6 high, which can never win at showdown, then a bet of half pot is profitable, if the opponent fold more than 33% of the time.

But if you have the best hand even just 10% of the time, now he need to fold more than 40% of the time, because you dont win anything extra, when you make him fold a worse hand. And at 2NL players notoriously dont like to fold, so river bluffs are at best marginal anyway. Here you bet 26c, which is the price of nothing. People hate getting bluffed, so if the opponent had any kind of showdown value, like even A7, he is usually going to stick in a call.

Finally blockers only matter, if they block a significant portion of the opponents calling range. Here you had Qd, which blocked some flush combos. But as Station_Master say, most 2NL players, who were barreling a flushdraw and then made it on the river, are not going to check to their opponent. They are going to bet their flush for value. So his range is far more AX heavy, which mean, its largely irrelevant, if you have Qd or not. IF you are going to bluff, the more important consideration is to pick a sizing, where he might actually fold most of his AX hands.
 
Aballinamion

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Hello community,

What do you think about my call preflop?
Any comments on flop and turn action?

What do you think about my bet on the river?

Sorry i cannot use CC converter at this moment as I play online from mobile phone

The hand was well played until the river. OTR we should've checked to realize our equity more often. When we bet on this river we have at least one flush nuts that we want to extract of losing hands. We know that players aren't opening from the SB so wide, so given SB's actions I would put it into some ace right off the bat.
 
georgi krastev

georgi krastev

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Hi.
What do you think about my call preflop?
Personaly i don't like that call. (These are problematic hands, if they miss, like any other.)

Folding and 3bet seems to me better option.
Any comments on flop and turn action?
Let's say the flop call is ok; on the turn since you aren't improving, it should be a fold, unless you have something else planned for later.
What do you think about my bet on the river?
Unsuccessful bluff.
 
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