$2 NL HE 6-max: Fold call or shove vs river donk?

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sitingman

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$
GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat

UTG: $2.38 (119 bb)
MP (Hero): $1.91 (96 bb)
CO: $2.42 (121 bb)
BU: $2.49 (125 bb)
SB: $2.00 (100 bb)
BB: $2.56 (128 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP with A T
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.06, 2 players fold, SB calls $0.05, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.14) T A 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.07, SB calls $0.07

Turn: ($0.28) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.21, SB calls $0.21

River: ($0.70) 9 (2 players)
SB bets $0.53,

What would you do vs the river donk here? Fold, call or shove?

Cheers
 
Aballinamion

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GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat

UTG: $2.38 (119 bb)
MP (Hero): $1.91 (96 bb)
CO: $2.42 (121 bb)
BU: $2.49 (125 bb)
SB: $2.00 (100 bb)
BB: $2.56 (128 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP with A T
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.06, 2 players fold, SB calls $0.05, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.14) T A 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.07, SB calls $0.07

Turn: ($0.28) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.21, SB calls $0.21

River: ($0.70) 9 (2 players)
SB bets $0.53,

What would you do vs the river donk here? Fold, call or shove?

Cheers
Hey mate thanks for posting this hand. This brings light and life to our cash thread.
Preflop is okay and when SB calls we assume it doesn’t own top hands quite often, for these hands would’ve 3-bet preflop. Ergo, we assign to SB just a few combos of AJ+ and TT+ (we own most of these combos from MP).,
The flop comes very good to us and our bet is good to charge potential draws and hands like Ax, Tx, 5x (???).
OTT we are betting a bit more for now there are more draws to charge. I like this sizing for still allows to control pot. SB can have a couple of sets but we aren’t too much worried about 55 or 66, that are present in SB’s cold calling capped range. We are double barreling and building the pot, I like that.
OTR villain leads and we are never folding here and never raising. Although if we consider that from mathematics cold point of view or some solver machine we should/could be jamming here for we are kinda SPR committed.
However calling seems a good option for the times we are wrong and SB really had a better hand than us.
OTR the conclusion is simple for calling down: even when we are wrong in calling we still save a couple of blinds and for the times we are right we already build a nice sizing pot, for we had bet flop/turn.

Nice hand and keep on grinding!
 
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Station_Master

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Never folding! Its between call and shove.

Villain cant really have 87 and many sets would have raised earlier I would expect villain to have a 2 pair combo often with this line or some wierd bluff. The question is would those 2 pair combos call if we raise? Probably your average villain at 2NL who donks river will call so I prefer raise here.

It is a bit thin as you will be shown sets sometimes but I think you will more often be called by weaker 2 pair. You only need to be called by worse just over 50% of the time to make it a profitable bet.
 
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sitingman

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Thanks for the responses! There was a player at the table making hero calls with middle pairs so the raise would have played better against him. The Villain in this hand was unkown so maybe a call would have been better but I still think a shove would get calls from Ak AQ, T9. I wouldn't put V on AA TT due to the preflop action.

Spoiler alert, I shoved. Villain calls with 66.
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
Standard open.

Flop
At 2NL I think, you should bet larger than this, when you have a very strong hand like two pair. There are no draws on this board other than some gutshots, so the main goal here is to get max value from AX and worse two pair. The issue with going just half pot is, that it limits the size of the bets, you can put in on the turn and river. And just to make it clear, I am not trying to suggest a balanced game here. If you bet 12c on the bluff, you likely never have any bluffs or weak made hands in your range. But this does not matter, since nobody at 2NL are smart enough to figure that out. They are just looking at their own two cards, and if they flopped top pair, they are not going anywhere.

Turn
More happy with your sizing now, but had you gone bigger on the flop, maybe you could bet 30c instead of 21c and still have it be the same size relative to the pot.

River
Its definitely not a fold. You do potentially lose to 87 now, but its kind of unlikely, he called the flop with that, since it did not even have a gutshot, and there were no flushdraws either. This means, that we are left with sets and worse two pair as his value range, and then he can also have some bluffs. And there are far more combos of worse two pair, than there are of sets. So I think, its fine to jam for value here, and you just happened to run into the top of his range. A bit of an unfortunate cooler, but at least its only 2 bucks to reload and play on :)
 
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300HPGOD

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100% agree with Fundiver above on every aspect of this hand. The river is down to bluffs, two pairs and sets. We heavily block AA and 1010 and also those hands 3 bet or should be 3 betting from the SB so those can be heavily discounted. 99 I believe is also off the table since do we feel villain is calling a double barrel on the turn of 3/4ths pot with two overcards to their 99 and also should be thinking (I know its 2NL maybe they dont even know what day it is) that our most likely holding is some Ax? I doubt they are calling on turn there so it literally leaves 55 or 66 and then we are ahead of everything else since 87 is just not there. If villain played the hand this way with 87 on a rainbow board and then badugi turn then we make the notes on them that they are an ATM and we will get the money back. As Fundiver said, way more combos and chance of two pair then 55 or 66 so in the long run its best to jam here.
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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A bit of an unfortunate cooler, but at least its only 2 bucks to reload and play on
I partially agree with what you said. Calling seems better than jamming for either way.
On top of that we are not strictly playing “2 bucks”, but a 100 blinds: we do not measure value in poker by currency, but for blinds.
If we are measuring currencies, we could assume that at NLHE 2 we can jam because it’s just 2 bucks and at NLHE 200 we are folding because it’s 200 bucks?!? 🤔
 
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fundiver199

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On top of that we are not strictly playing “2 bucks”, but a 100 blinds: we do not measure value in poker by currency, but for blinds.
That is of course true. But even so the stakes matter, because at such low stakes very few players will be able to lead the river for value and then fold to a jam. So its not like, we can only get called by better, which might be the case in some more expensive games against some opponents. If for instance the opponent has AT or T9, which are his most likely hands for value, then we are getting paid, and that is, why we should jam.
 
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