$2 NL HE 6-max: - flush completing on the river - call or fold to all in with K high flush?

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Samweis3

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As mentioned in other threads I have changed to 6 max regular table.

Here I was already quite deep and had some bigger hands with this player before. He played the hands he played quite aggressively. I also observed some spots were I was not personally involved where he did not have the nuts…

Then this spot appeared. What do you do on the river?

 
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As mentioned in other threads I have changed to 6 max regular table.

Here I was already quite deep and had some bigger hands with this player before. He played the hands he played quite aggressively. I also observed some spots were I was not personally involved where he did not have the nuts…

Then this spot appeared. What do you do on the river?

Considering this is a paired board it’s an standard fold: hard to believe villain would jam this board with a jack or a nine... and there’s the paired board which put us in a simple fold spot.
 
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If he has a completed a FH, why does he not protect the trips before when there is the flushdraw on the river? I would not be to concerned about FH as the pair is 66 or do you talk about 4 of a kind?
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
This is one of those, where all three options (call, fold, 3-bet) are pretty close in EV, so not to important, what you do here.

Flop
Standard check to the preflop raiser.

Turn
You picked up a flushdraw, but at the same time a Q is also a card, he could easily have. So I think, leading out or check-calling are both reasonable options.

River
Before looking at the results my conclusion was, that this is an obvious bet-fold spot. If you check, he is going to check behind most of the hands, you can get value from. If however you bet, and he raise, he is hardly ever bluffing, and he never has a worse hand for value, so you can fold and feel pretty good about it. So I am cool with betting, but since you are going for rather thin value, I might size down a bit.

Results
The above was assuming, that he raise to a normal size. Instead he jam, which is a massive overbet, and that should have been the easiest fold in the world. Its pretty normal to slowplay a full house, and even TT might be played this way. So he has all the boats, and he can of course easily have the nut flush as well, as he actually had.
 
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Ok, understand. As more often I review the hand as more likely he could have QQ rather than 1010. with the boat QQQ66 he would love to see a flush complete here as well, which would have explained his small call on the turn.

I should have found the fold button here… another lessons learned and spot I will play differently in future.

My graph is definitely going into the right direction this moment thanks to all of your advices
 
pentazepam

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I will add that K10off is also easier to just fold in SB if the button isn't bad aggressive. Especially since the hand gives you so much trouble on the later streets.
 
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I will add that K10off is also easier to just fold in SB if the button isn't bad aggressive. Especially since the hand gives you so much trouble on the later streets.
On the other hand it is 6 max and we have to defend a fair amount of hands. Does not mean we need to play all of them until the end.

What would be your defending range?
 
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fundiver199

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On the other hand it is 6 max and we have to defend a fair amount of hands.
The only situation, where you need to defend less at full ring, is when someone open from one of the first 3 seats. In any other situation a 6-max game is just the same as a 9-max game, where the first 3 players have folded. Or 8-max where the first 2 players have folded. I still cant get GTO Wizard to accept cold calling preflop, but as a pure 3-bet or fold strategy the program defends: 66+, AJ+, KQ, A7s+, A4s-A5s, T8s, T9s+. It also has some partials, which are: 55, AT, KJ, JT, A3s, 54s+. Of those KJ is basically a 50/50. So as I wrote you can fold, 3-bet or call, and the solver is basically indifferent. In real time it would be reasonable to look at, who BTN and BB are. If BB is a 3-bet maniac, then I definitely dont want to call, but if BB is very passive, calling can be a fine option, if you are comfortable playing out of position. If BTN is tight, its best to just fold, but if BTN is very loose, then we either call or 3-bet.
 
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So GTO is folding 22, 33, 44 preflop?
 
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So GTO is folding 22, 33, 44 preflop?
In a 3-bet or fold strategy: yes. Might be included in a calling range. But in reality setmining out of position against a wide range is pretty crappy. You will realise your equity poorly, because you will often get bluffed, and when you hit your set, you often wont get paid or at least not paid enough. So yes its very reasonable to open fold 22-44 from SB against a 2,5BB open.
 
pentazepam

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On the other hand it is 6 max and we have to defend a fair amount of hands. Does not mean we need to play all of them until the end.

What would be your defending range?
It depends on the player I'm against, and not only how he plays preflop but also post-flop.

I don't have a solver, but a lot of pre-flop charts and K10off is a fold in most of the GTO-charts. They also recommend a 3-bet or fold strategy from the SB and draw the line at KJo.

But if you have a really bad player in the BB you can call more of the hands if they pay you off post-flop. If the button overfolds or underfolds to 3-bet you can also shift from GTO charts to more explotative play.

Charts are just a starting point but here is one example of SB versus a button raise (fold or 3-bet style): Chart sb versus button raise
 
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fundiver199

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I don't have a solver, but a lot of pre-flop charts and K10off is a fold in most of the GTO-charts.
When I did the GTO Wizard analysis, I thought Hero had KJo rather than KTo. KTo is a pure fold in GTO, but we can play the hand, if BTN is opening to wide.
 
eetenor

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As mentioned in other threads I have changed to 6 max regular table.

Here I was already quite deep and had some bigger hands with this player before. He played the hands he played quite aggressively. I also observed some spots were I was not personally involved where he did not have the nuts…

Then this spot appeared. What do you do on the river?

We do not want to play KToff for a flat in 100bb cash in the SB we fold most often or 3 bet as a bluff- folding at this stage of your skill curve would be best. A fold is also best when the BTN is agg- post flop not just preflop
GTO Wizard is free you can access 6max 100bb cash game ranges it is a great way to learn these spots preflop-post flop you have to pay but you get 1 free per day



This flop is perfect for an LAG BTN to bet -when they do not -they have nuts or nothing nuts being a boat here-
Lag's know they have nut advantage here as you have almost no 6's-they have all the suited. They will bet this board often.

For us the flop is not a big pot flop therefore our goal is to get to the river cheaply. We love that we get to see a turn card for free

Turn we picked up a draw to the second best flush which is behind several boats and we are OOP vs an AGG player who has bluffs-
check it do not bloat the pot. What are you value targeting? If you are bluffing why this sizing- blocker bets or bigger bets are best in this spot.

River what are you value targeting with this size? The best club we win vs is the Jc the third best club on a paired board Is this player really this bad that they would call this spot? How many bluffs do we have here? Good idea for you to build your bluff range for this sizing?

Why are we not bluff catching vs a LAG V- it allows us to keep their range wider and pot control

The river decision is based on earlier mistakes vs this V type- Yes the V can be bluffing but they could also have us crushed -V has 77 76 Q6 T6 QQ sometimes- TT sometimes- Ac sometimes-I say only sometimes based on the flop check not bet--- What are their bluffs?

It would be good for you to look at their showdown hands and see if they understand range bluffs or are they exploit bluffing? The show down hands they bluffed will tell the story for you.

You can go either way here if you think the V is just betting expecting to get folds range blindly but most often we fold based on a LAG checking flop- then shoving river into two strong bets. They check nuts alot and then do not turn the Jc into a bluff that often.

Results suggest TAG player even more reason to fold river.

Just learning the GTO basics preflop from the SB will save you a lot of money even at NL2 and its free


:unsure::geek:
 
eetenor

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On the other hand it is 6 max and we have to defend a fair amount of hands. Does not mean we need to play all of them until the end.

What would be your defending range?
As we are still learning the 100bb+ cash game it is best to drop bottom of GTO ranges as they are the hand combos that are most often dominated post flop and we have yet to master the skills of turn and river range construction for ourselves our our V
It is also best to play nitty in the SB until we have studied post flop actions OOP more. By playing nitty we will naturally want to be raising more of our range thereby excluding the -EV flats like this one

:unsure::geek:
 
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