$100 NLHE 6-max: J8s is too pretty to fold because I have awesome reads on villain.

[GrantGreen]

There are 2 obvious reasons that 4 betting to about 2.5x the 3 bet amount is the 'right' amount.

1) (and this seems to be the one you're using to justify your play) It allows you to 4 bet light more cheaply.

2) (and this seems to be the one you're ignoring) It lays an excellent price to the player who 3 bet to CONTINUE.

The bet sizing is saying 2 seemingly contradictory things at the same time. Thence comes the power of that bet size. And it doesn't give you all the info you need to 5 bet shove with J8. Without history.

 

[c9h13no3]

2) (and this seems to be the one you're ignoring) It lays an excellent price to the player who 3 bet to CONTINUE.

Um, no it doesn't... I have to commit 100$ to shove, and he's only risking 19$...

Are you suggesting I flat this 4-bet?

 

[GrantGreen]

If he has a monster, he is pricing you in to flat. His 4 bet gives the 3 bettor a good price to call and re-evaluate on the flop. I'm not saying that flatting a 4 bet oop is good, just that his bet sizing could be interpreted as wanting a call.

 

[zachvac]

I think a small 4-bet more invites a bluff shove than a call. Calling is pretty bad in this spot but if you 4-bet small you allow the other player to actually have some fold equity when they shove. As you mentioned this would indicate that he could have a monster and want to invite bluff shoves but more likely he also does it with air for balance.