$10 NLHE 6-max: Is This Too Aggressive Or The Right Play?

[Jamalex]

iPoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 2 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat

SB (Hero): $41.51 (415 bb)
BB: $9.66 (97 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 8♠ 6♠
Hero raises to $0.30, BB 3-bets to $0.75, Hero calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.50) Q♠ J♠ 9♠ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.95, BB raises to $2.13, Hero raises to $40.76 (all-in), BB calls $6.78 (all-in)

How would you have played this?

 

[gustav197poker]

Opening and defending with 86s in a blind duel is a bit marginal being OOP. Possibly I call 2.3x, but at 2.5x we are closer to the preflop fold. However, the hand has some properties like bluff and some connectivity for low textures, so defense is the most realistic possibility for this size.
On this flop I prefer the x / r line. Since we've played I don't like that small depolarized V bet, after your big bet of flop in this texture.
Our opponent has: Ts; Ks and As in its range. The 8s is part of your lower range, as it is overtaken by the previous scales. A bet as big as the you 3-bet, automatically places you with all the combos that beat you, if the villain is a good 10NL regular.
You shouldn't expect too many V bluffs with this flop raise and the single color board. In this spot, calling allows you to keep all of the villain's hands that you can defeat until the river. You also protect your range and can represent more bluffs in turn/river than if we only push the flop. We can accumulate more bluffs in our range to induce open calls, when we have a deep stack.
Greetings.

 

[Jamalex]

I just want to clarify and hope to get a new opinion by you. Yes this is a 6max table but we are heads up right now and I am the SB on the button, IN position to the BB. So my preflop RFI and 2.5x 3-Bet call is a no brainer call to me. I flopped a small flush in position and I find it to be a very vulnerable hand. Now the BB, the raiser, actually checked this board to me. So I bet just under 2/3 pot and he check raised me a very small 2.2x. I then decided to ship it because there are very few hands I am losing to here. The board blocks almost all the flush draws that he would have 3-bet preflop. Meaning Ax and maybe K10s of spades is all I lose to. While that's great he also is 3-betting all 3 of the possible sets on the board, QJs and Pocket 10's, K's and A's with a spade. If I call and another spade rolls off or the board pairs I'm in a very tough spot where I probably will have to check fold my flush. That was my reasoning for 3-bet jamming the flop. He did call and with AA with a spade and luckily for me I had a clean runout and won the hand. I am curious if after re reading this you have new thoughts, thank you!

 

[gustav197poker]

I just want to clarify and hope to get a new opinion by you. Yes this is a 6max table but we are heads up right now and I am the SB on the button, IN position to the BB. So my preflop RFI and 2.5x 3-Bet call is a no brainer call to me. I flopped a small flush in position and I find it to be a very vulnerable hand. Now the BB, the raiser, actually checked this board to me. So I bet just under 2/3 pot and he check raised me a very small 2.2x. I then decided to ship it because there are very few hands I am losing to here. The board blocks almost all the flush draws that he would have 3-bet preflop. Meaning Ax and maybe K10s of spades is all I lose to. While that's great he also is 3-betting all 3 of the possible sets on the board, QJs and Pocket 10's, K's and A's with a spade. If I call and another spade rolls off or the board pairs I'm in a very tough spot where I probably will have to check fold my flush. That was my reasoning for 3-bet jamming the flop. He did call and with AA with a spade and luckily for me I had a clean runout and won the hand. I am curious if after re reading this you have new thoughts, thank you!

In general, I do not give too much importance to the results, but to the fact of how the hand was played. I still think the same. Possibly I defend my blind like you did preflop. I agree that we have a vulnerable color and a disadvantage of range with respect to the board configurations you propose.
If that's the case, I wouldn't bother folding my weak flush. But I would not like to take away from the villain the possibility of make a bluff. If OTF we do x / r and the villain jam, it is different than if we push first. In the first case there will still be more semi bluffs in the V range, in addition to the sets and 2 pairs that will block here in a high frequency. I'm glad you won the hand.

 

[zuker]

I would fold preflop weak hand against unknown opp.You ARE result oriented.
Suited cards hit flash on flop only ~1% and your flash is vulnerable.
So you will be loosing chips in distance.

 

[Jamalex]

I would fold preflop weak hand against unknown opp.You ARE result oriented.
Suited cards hit flash on flop only ~1% and your flash is vulnerable.
So you will be loosing chips in distance.

I wasn't sure how I wanted to respond to this but I'll just say my intentions were not just to hit a flush with 86s. If thats all your looking for when you play "suited cards" then I agree you should fold that hand vs any bet/raise because you will lose money. The results oriented comment made me laugh so I'll give your comment a like anyways friend.

 

[zuker]

I wasn't sure how I wanted to respond to this but I'll just say my intentions were not just to hit a flush with 86s. If thats all your looking for when you play "suited cards" then I agree you should fold that hand vs any bet/raise because you will lose money. The results oriented comment made me laugh so I'll give your comment a like anyways friend.

And what your intentions from 86s? Trips, Quads, Straight Flash...? Or just big enough amount of folds from unknown villain?

 

[tt124f]

I think the play is fine, we certainly not folding to that small 3-bet, and we paly aggressive when we have premium hand.
A more important question is actually what will you do when you are not hitting big. As people above says, you would have to play marginal made hand or draws the vast majority of time OOP. Most time we will not face this easy situation and we should prepare for that. But in my opinion, we should get in and battle instead of folding to a 2.5X 3-bet. Nice hand and well played this time!

 

[Jamalex]

And what your intentions from 86s? Trips, Quads, Straight Flash...? Or just big enough amount of folds from unknown villain?

Your just talking about flopping the nuts vs villain. I'm looking to find spots I can apply pressure and earn folds, yes. That is why it is a beneficial spot to be in. I intend to win a good amount of pots with just 8 high or maybe a small pair, but not because they showdown. When I play 86s I will very rarely showdown this hand, either villain will fold, I will fold or once in a while I'll just smash a flop and get it in. Villain is not an unkown to me but even vs an unknown I would flat this 3-bet a good amount of the time when it's that small. Blind vs Blind. In position. Hope this explaination was better for you.

 

[gustav197poker]

I also want to add a little more. I agree to take the initiative exactly as you did this hand, when we are a standard 100bb stack. Being very deep, the call is based on it (your SPR and the of V) and because we have a position, in this particular hand. If villain raised the flop, he could still do so with some semi bluffs: QTs; JTs; 9Ts. We can make these hands continue to bluff on the turn / river. At the same time we have a greater margin of protection in our range, if another street of spades appears, etc.

 

[Jamalex]

In general, I do not give too much importance to the results, but to the fact of how the hand was played. I still think the same. Possibly I defend my blind like you did preflop. I agree that we have a vulnerable color and a disadvantage of range with respect to the board configurations you propose.
If that's the case, I wouldn't bother folding my weak flush. But I would not like to take away from the villain the possibility of make a bluff. If OTF we do x / r and the villain jam, it is different than if we push first. In the first case there will still be more semi bluffs in the V range, in addition to the sets and 2 pairs that will block here in a high frequency. I'm glad you won the hand.

As there have been more comments and I was thinking about this hand more, I realized I don't think that villain would choose to check raise a flush (Pretty much only gonna have A high flushes unless he has K10s) in this spot. What is he expecting me to call him with when he does this? Also I'm not sure if any sets or 2 pair hands would use that same strategy because they are going to want to bet for value and not give me a free card if I check back, because if another spade rolls off and they have Top 2 pair or a set they will be in a terrible spot with a great hand. I think most of his range here is the A of spades plus an offsuit A-10. Maybe KK 1010 or KQ with one of them a spade. Obviously these thoughts were not in my head during the hand but looking back I realized this. This play just screams he doesn't have a made flush to me or even a set/two pair. He wants a fold and does not want to see many turn or river cards besides another spade. (Neither did I) I appreciate your responses, thank you.

 

[Jamalex]

I think the play is fine, we certainly not folding to that small 3-bet, and we paly aggressive when we have premium hand.
A more important question is actually what will you do when you are not hitting big. As people above says, you would have to play marginal made hand or draws the vast majority of time OOP. Most time we will not face this easy situation and we should prepare for that. But in my opinion, we should get in and battle instead of folding to a 2.5X 3-bet. Nice hand and well played this time!

Thank you! Again I think this is a slightly confusing hand to people because I am actually in position in this hand, I am the SB and the Button. I couldn't agree more that I am not folding to that small of a 3-bet in position and am looking to battle with some of those marginal hands depending on the flop and action by villain.

 

[Jamalex]

I also want to add a little more. I agree to take the initiative exactly as you did this hand, when we are a standard 100bb stack. Being very deep, the call is based on it (your SPR and the of V) and because we have a position, in this particular hand. If villain raised the flop, he could still do so with some semi bluffs: QTs; JTs; 9Ts. We can make these hands continue to bluff on the turn / river. At the same time we have a greater margin of protection in our range, if another street of spades appears, etc.

I actually just said a similar thing in response to your other answerAlthough I did not include hands like ATs, QTs, JTs and T9s they are definately possible as well. I believe you are correct.

 

[mara2259]

Just another confirmation of the fact that not many players are able to fold a pair of aces in an unfavorable situation.

 

[LevySystem]

Flop: ($1.50) Q♠ J♠ 9♠ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.95, BB raises to $2.13, Hero raises to $40.76 (all-in), BB calls $6.78 (all-in)

This doesn't add up. Hero is oop, therefore he is first to act. So either hero donks or x/r here. Donking this spot is a misplay imo. And calling a 4bet OTF from BB is also spewy.
Also the mistake starts preflop.

 

[quant1986]

HU less than 100bb effective, I think you can fast play this hand on this board. V could have many value combos like sets, two pairs, pair with Ks or As, combo draws, KT that you would be leading. Also I wouldn't rule out A high flush from his range especially wheel aces.

 

[Jamalex]

This doesn't add up. Hero is oop, therefore he is first to act. So either hero donks or x/r here. Donking this spot is a misplay imo. And calling a 4bet OTF from BB is also spewy.
Also the mistake starts preflop.

It has seemed to be very confusing but due to players getting out and the table going down to 2 people in a 6max game, I ended up on the button and the small blind at the same time...I am IN position. It is not a mistake. It is just a strange situation. I did not donk or check raise this. It was checked to me. Also OTF I 3-bet shoved. Villain called the all-in. If there is any more confusion please relook at hand and read previous comments.