$10 NLHE 6-max: 300bb eff. 4 bet pot

teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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OK... so as played the Riv is a bet/fold spot. I think we only get value from QQ, I thought he had JJ with :jc4:, but was hoping AK with :ac4: and thus I turned a decent sech into a massive loss :rolleyes:

But more generally... how do we play 4bet situations deepstacked? Now that I play zoom it comes up a lot. I never even considered that one could call with suited connectors, but I guess it's pretty standard.

For the next month or so, I'm going to log out if I go much over 150bbs just because I don't know how to play em... but do I have to construct a 5bet range facing 4bets? Facing a 4! should I just flat with everything? (seems easier lol)

As 4bettor deepstacked, how do we play these wet flops? Yikes, it makes me want to puke! XC river?? Lawd help me. :(

Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 153.9 BB
SB: 123 BB
Hero (BB): 270.7 BB
UTG: 124.5 BB
MP: 205.9 BB
CO: 320.9 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A A

fold, MP raises to 2.8 BB, CO raises to 7.6 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 19.4 BB, fold, CO calls 11.8 BB

Flop: (42.1 BB, 2 players) 8 9 K
Hero bets 14.5 BB, CO calls 14.5 BB

Turn: (71.1 BB, 2 players) 9
Hero bets 53.3 BB, CO calls 53.3 BB

River: (177.7 BB, 2 players) J
Hero bets 44.4 BB, CO raises to 233.7 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 139.1 BB and is all-in

Hero shows A A (Two Pair, Aces and Nines)
(Pre 77%, Flop 27%, Turn 5%)
CO shows 9 8 (Full House, Nines full of Eights)
(Pre 23%, Flop 73%, Turn 95%)
CO wins 517.5 BB
 
G

gustav197poker

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CO's 3-bet preflop size is pretty weak with 4 positions left for talk, but However the villain managed to eliminate 2 of them and it's our turn. As we are OOP I prefer 4bet of 5x, since we are quite deep and we also want to induce a 5-bet now, since we are limiting the SPR margins to the maximum and therefore postflop playability.
In this type of flop it is profitable to keep the rank V bluffs, that is possible by checking most of the time on these mono color boards. Also the medium scales have a better chance of being in the range of the CO villain (we do not block sets).
The same consideration holds for the turn and river. Basically we have the best bluff catcher. It may sound very conservative or bad but it is that really analyzing the rank of the villain, as played we are only ahead of QQ in this boat of 4 bets.The rest was eliminated a lot in the previous streets.
Greetings.
 
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Sidetracked

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As deep as you are, and being out of position, I'd prefer a larger 4 bet size preflop. A pot sized raise would be to about 26 BBs. That way you may have folded out his suited connectors.
 
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fundiver199

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This hand remind me off, when I was playing 10NL and 16NL Zoom on pokerstars, and its not a good memory LOL. To be honest you got taken to school here by, what is probably a better player.

I agree with those, who suggest to 4-bet larger, when you are deep. The typical 21-22BB 4-bet is for 100BB games, because it leaves room to fold to a 5-bet, which again allow you to have some bluffs. If you look at high stake televised games, you will see, that good players also 4-bet much larger, when they are deep.

But postflop I also think, you overplayed your hand, and its not only calling off his river jam. You are targeting a very narrow range, when you go for 3 streets in a 4-bet pot on a monotone board. You block AK, so he can only have 6 combos of it, but he can have 7-11 combos of boats, he can have some flushes, and he can even sometimes have a weird hand like Ac9x, which now has trips.

So I think, you need to check here somewhere and mostly hope, he checks back. In this case he obviously would not have checked back, and then at some point you just need to make a decision. With stacks this deep, and so relatively many combos, that beat you, I think, AA with no club can be folded.

I also agree with going south in Zoom games, until you are a proven winner and feel, you are better than your opponents at deep stacked play like this. But more importantly I would also ask myself, if Zoom is really the game, I want to play. In my experience other games like full ring traditional tables and MTTs are significantly softer and easier to beat.
 
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beginnerbot

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I think you should fold to the river jam. CO could have a flush or a full house you don't block any of them. I would rather call with AK with the A of clubs.
 
teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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Just wanted to say thanks all! Super helpful. I'm improving, but there are many better players who take advantage of my foolish mistakes.

10nl zoom is going well so far and I like it so I will stay there for the time being.

4bet sizing info was the most useful.
 
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UkoChebuko

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At this spot, with such a deep stack, I will play like singe raised pot with big iso raise. I will not look for "stack off" without set or without many bluffs in his range. Still this is different spot, his range will be narrow. Let's say we play against a nit in a singe raised pot. At this board I will bet OTF, OTT and OTR I will check and then depends on his size, his stats (or notes, observations) I will think about call or fold.

As played I will fold...I don't know. With this bet.... With this bet you are "asking" for shove. Maybe call is better. I don't know, I don't play like that, this is not in "my style". I think there are some bluffs in his range. Against this line. Maybe this call is borderline. A little confusing. You probably made a good call. But if you don' have a nutty hands in your range (with this line), you play is bad, no offence.
 
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