youregoodmate
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Can I have the outs for a straight and my two overs as well please?
JusSumguy
Chipmonger
Silver Level
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OMGITSOVER9K
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
c9 disagrees with everyone, 'omg i've been out of poker for a year but everyone else is still lol bad compared'
I don't dislike barrelling, I just prefer c/j because he puts in more money with air/thin value and tbh he can't have much here.
+ when we barrel and get called we have like no FE on rivers due to stack sizes.
its 4handed, he's gonna flat 3bets a bunch IP here, and that board is super dry to give him even more of a reason.
imo if he bets this turn he's either going for thin value/bluffing/turning a weak made hand into a bluff so the shove is fine.. naturally I'd rather have a bit more behind but OP put us in this spot so thats my line.
how does his range get stronger on the turn when he bets.. what monsters does he have here? QQ+ should be getting it in so he has TT and what else?
we still 3betting 99 as a bluff vs BTN opens? smh.
I don't dislike barrelling, I just prefer c/j because he puts in more money with air/thin value and tbh he can't have much here.
+ when we barrel and get called we have like no FE on rivers due to stack sizes.
its 4handed, he's gonna flat 3bets a bunch IP here, and that board is super dry to give him even more of a reason.
imo if he bets this turn he's either going for thin value/bluffing/turning a weak made hand into a bluff so the shove is fine.. naturally I'd rather have a bit more behind but OP put us in this spot so thats my line.
how does his range get stronger on the turn when he bets.. what monsters does he have here? QQ+ should be getting it in so he has TT and what else?
we still 3betting 99 as a bluff vs BTN opens? smh.
c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
A) Villain's range gets stronger when he bets the turn because he will check back with the weaker portions of it. I said this earlier in the thread, and repeating myself is fun?
B) This is 10NL, players tend to be passive and bad, thus unlikely to bet for thin value or float as you posit above. Especially an unknown. At these stakes, shouldn't we assume that an unknown is bad with bad player tendencies?
C) It seems like a relatively simple concept to me that people's range gets stronger the more money they put into the pot. Go ahead and look through your database and find me a player with a higher fold to turn c-bet than a fold to flop c-bet. There might be one in your whole database? Sure, its a generalization, but in a spot where our opponent has already committed 3 bets, and we have no hands on him, a generalization that's right more often than not sounds pretty good.
B) This is 10NL, players tend to be passive and bad, thus unlikely to bet for thin value or float as you posit above. Especially an unknown. At these stakes, shouldn't we assume that an unknown is bad with bad player tendencies?
C) It seems like a relatively simple concept to me that people's range gets stronger the more money they put into the pot. Go ahead and look through your database and find me a player with a higher fold to turn c-bet than a fold to flop c-bet. There might be one in your whole database? Sure, its a generalization, but in a spot where our opponent has already committed 3 bets, and we have no hands on him, a generalization that's right more often than not sounds pretty good.
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duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
A) it doesnt get weaker! it gets more polarised surely thats a simple concept to understand.
B) valid point but you didnt state just now, you posted absolutes that are wrong.
C) gross oversimplification of fold equity
acky100
Legend
Silver Level
Still not sold on the x/jam, lets think about villains range. There is just very few draws on this board by the turn, for example, maybe only AJ that floated the flop if he floats the flop with this. But then if hes floating AJ, he is floating AQ which makes top pair almost as much as the times he has AJ that we can call "air". When you include two pair with QTs that villain has and atleast TT for a set, he has more value than bluffs.
If we say villain has 66-99 then on the turn this is around 35% of his range which could make a check jam totally cool if you think he is going to bet fold these on the turn, however, i think just betting again guarantees these fold every time and it possibly folds the middle part of villains range that makes up 25% of his range (T9s,KTs,ATs, JTs, JJ) which he would otherwise just check back with on the turn (and if he does call with these we will have a very profitable river shove if we set the stacks up better.)
So yeah i just kinda feel he makes more mistakes when we continue betting, and that hopefully shows how we have more FE when we barrel rather than x/shove. without even considering what happens when
Hero checks, villain bets $3.50, Hero jams, Villain has to call $ 4.15 into a pot of $12.30 or something, only needs to be good 25% of the time, kind of get ourself in trouble if he does ever bet some of his pair hands that arent really low because he might just talk himself into calling off because we can have AK
If we say villain has 66-99 then on the turn this is around 35% of his range which could make a check jam totally cool if you think he is going to bet fold these on the turn, however, i think just betting again guarantees these fold every time and it possibly folds the middle part of villains range that makes up 25% of his range (T9s,KTs,ATs, JTs, JJ) which he would otherwise just check back with on the turn (and if he does call with these we will have a very profitable river shove if we set the stacks up better.)
So yeah i just kinda feel he makes more mistakes when we continue betting, and that hopefully shows how we have more FE when we barrel rather than x/shove. without even considering what happens when
Hero checks, villain bets $3.50, Hero jams, Villain has to call $ 4.15 into a pot of $12.30 or something, only needs to be good 25% of the time, kind of get ourself in trouble if he does ever bet some of his pair hands that arent really low because he might just talk himself into calling off because we can have AK
OMGITSOVER9K
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
he'll fold 66-99 and some of his weaker tens to a river bet if he checks back the turn anyway + we can get there..
if he'll fold to a turn barrel he'll fold to a river barrel.
because he's a bad 10nl reg right?
if he'll fold to a turn barrel he'll fold to a river barrel.
because he's a bad 10nl reg right?
acky100
Legend
Silver Level
Explain your question again please? i dont understand what you are saying?
Yeh he probs will fold 66-99 to a bet check bet line, but i want to fold out his middle range also and just as importantly we want to get a full stack when we hit our monster hand, i think bet check bet will get 66-99 to fold but be a losing bet as his Tx is gonna stick around
Yeh he probs will fold 66-99 to a bet check bet line, but i want to fold out his middle range also and just as importantly we want to get a full stack when we hit our monster hand, i think bet check bet will get 66-99 to fold but be a losing bet as his Tx is gonna stick around
c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Villains are more likely to call with 99, Tx on the river when the turn is checked through because they are closer to showdown and no longer having their stack threatened. LDO? "Check for pot control" isn't lost on you is it?
And I'm not sure what duggs is smoking but I think I want some.
And I'm not sure what duggs is smoking but I think I want some.
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