$10 NL HE 6-max:

[blueskies]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.05/$.10

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

VP$IP

21

PFR

16

AF

1

Currency

$

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 21/16/1
(Sorry I forgot to add a title)

I am on CO with 6d6h. Villain to my right opens to 25c. I call. BB calls. The others fold.

Flop is 3s6s8s.

Villain cbets half pot, 38c into 75c (rake adjusted) pot. I pop it to $1.50 since there are 3 spades. BB folds, villain calls. (In hindsight perhaps I should have raised smaller.)

Turn is 8d giving me the FH. Villain checks. I check behind to give him a chance to catch the flush.

River is 5s. He instashoves $8.25 into $3.54 pot. WTF?

I do lose to a straight flush, but does he 24 or 47? And maybe 86? 85? a bigger FH? Doubtful too. 88 I guess? I thought he most likely he has AsX and anyway I can't really fold a FH right?

Called.

Spoiler

8c8h. In hindsight he does have more combos that beats me that would shove in that spot. Does he even shove with Ks on a paired board so it's really only As. But in any case, I don't think I can bring myself to fold even though I know he has SOMETHING.

 

[puzzlefish]

I was thinking 88 but what do you do in cooler situations like this except get it in?

 

[Station_Master]

You only lose to 1 realistic hand 88, and 3 combos that might play this way (33). Of course if he is really bad he could have nut flush too. Anyway I think you have to call when you only.lose to 1 logical combo

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Standard call. I guess, we can also 3-bet from time to time, but calling is certainly the main play here.

Flop
Once again both calling and raising is fine. Obviously a set is not quite as strong on a monotone board, since someone could have flopped a flush. But you are not that far behind to a flush, and there are plenty of worse hands, you can get value from, especially hands with a single spade. So all in all I am fine with this raise. It also keep you balanced, so that you can have a boat, if the board end up pairing.

Turn
You filled up, and its true, that we dont want our opponent to fold a draw, when we have a boat already. But I dont think, checking back is nessesary. You can just bet something small, where he will still convince himself to continue drawing. This makes it easier to get stacks inside on the river, if he makes a flush. And when you raised him on the flop, its not very likely, he will bluff the river, so for me this is a bit to fancy and unnessesary.

River
Obviously you could be beat, but I still think, this is a pretty easy call. If he has a straight flush, then he flopped a small flush, and I think, that gets 3-bet on the flop a large percentage of the time. The higher boats are also unlikely, as someone with these stats should not be opening 85 or 83, and you block 86. So most of the time this is probably the nut flush kind of overplaying, or maybe even a wild bluff.

Results
Basically this was just a set over set situation, and its completely normal for the player with the lower set to get stacked 100 BB deep.

 

[Aballinamion]

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 21/16/1
(Sorry I forgot to add a title)

I am on CO with 6d6h. Villain to my right opens to 25c. I call. BB calls. The others fold.

Flop is 3s6s8s.

Villain cbets half pot, 38c into 75c (rake adjusted) pot. I pop it to $1.50 since there are 3 spades. BB folds, villain calls. (In hindsight perhaps I should have raised smaller.)

Turn is 8d giving me the FH. Villain checks. I check behind to give him a chance to catch the flush.

River is 5s. He instashoves $8.25 into $3.54 pot. WTF?

I do lose to a straight flush, but does he 24 or 47? And maybe 86? 85? a bigger FH? Doubtful too. 88 I guess? I thought he most likely he has AsX and anyway I can't really fold a FH right?

Called.

Spoiler

8c8h. In hindsight he does have more combos that beats me that would shove in that spot. Does he even shove with Ks on a paired board so it's really only As. But in any case, I don't think I can bring myself to fold even though I know he has SOMETHING.

Preflop was okay. On the flop I have no idea why would you raised once you have no spades on your range. You do not have the best hand for this flop but also you cannot fold, but raising seems too much optimistic.
On the turn you have a very strong hand so I don’t see why not to check and let villain bets his dominated hands and bluffs.
On the river she shoves and we insta-call with no further worries. If villain has us beat with quads or whatever good for it, we aren’t folding this full house here.
This is a cooler and life goes on. The hand was well played by both players involved.
Like Britney Spears sings: “baby can’t you see? I’m calling...” and also Billie Holiday “you can cry on the river” (I know it’s cry me a river, I’m just kidding)
Best regards;

 

[fundiver199]

You only lose to 1 realistic hand 88, and 3 combos that might play this way (33).

I assume, you mean beat 3 combos that might play this way (33)? But yeah. Its a good point, that he could also have a worse boat here. Its not even like, Hero has the bottom boat. I guess he could also have 86s, but thats just one combo. So 2 realistic combos of boats, we lose to, and 3 we beat. Maybe Hero could consider folding 33. But in general, if you never fold a full house in 100 BB poker on a single paired board, you are not making any real mistake and most likely doing better than, if you look for spots to make a sick fold. Its a bit same as folding KK preflop. Yes you can sometimes do it, but you can easily end up making more mistakes, than if u just get it in and accept your fate, if someone has AA.

 

[puzzlefish]

I assume, you mean beat 3 combos that might play this way (33)? But yeah. Its a good point, that he could also have a worse boat here. Its not even like, Hero has the bottom boat. I guess he could also have 86s, but thats just one combo. Also the overbet jam dont make sense with any hand. If Hero has a hand strong enough to call that, then Hero is also going to bet if checked to. So Villain should either make a normal river bet, go for a check-raise or lead the turn, when he improve to quads. He played his hand poorly and just got lucky to be on the good side of a perfect cooler.

I don't agree with you there, because hero's line screams something strong on the flop and when villain hits his quads, he will get max value from jamming on the river and making that look like any of the other combos being completed that hero may beat or bluffs. It's a well-played cooler and otherwise hero may have been able to get away for less.

 

[Station_Master]

I assume, you mean beat 3 combos that might play this way (33)? But yeah. Its a good point, that he could also have a worse boat here. Its not even like, Hero has the bottom boat. I guess he could also have 86s, but thats just one combo. So 2 realistic combos of boats, we lose to, and 3 we beat. Maybe Hero could consider folding 33. But in general, if you never fold a full house in 100 BB poker on a single paired board, you are not making any real mistake and most likely doing better than, if you look for spots to make a sick fold. Its a bit same as folding KK preflop. Yes you can sometimes do it, but you can easily end up making more mistakes, than if u just get it in and accept your fate, if someone has AA.

Yeah that's what I meant. I thought 86 for a boat or 97 for straight flush very unlikely, as I wouldn't expect villain to open those from HJ with his fairly normal HUD stats

 

[Aballinamion]

I don't agree with you there, because hero's line screams something strong on the flop and when villain hits his quads, he will get max value from jamming on the river and making that look like any of the other combos being completed that hero may beat or bluffs. It's a well-played cooler and otherwise hero may have been able to get away for less.

There’s a poker theorem that states that we should never fold a full house. I partially disagree of this theorem when we have trips and ending up forming a boat, when we only have a pocket pair and it comes three equal cards on the board, when we have a pair and hit a full house and then comes three equal cards, in all of these situations we can consider a fold, depending entirely on villain’s profile or tendencies.
The hand posted for the OP is one that fits the theorem perfectly: we have a pair and hit a set and there are doubled cards on the deck.
As @fundiver199 said, folding boats like this is the same of folding KK preflop, and if we are able to fold hands with so huge equity, we shouldn’t be playing poker in the first place, rather than that we should be playing chess or gammon.

 

[rastapapolos]

Yeah you just can't fold a full house on the river IMO. It's just this part of the game that we can't do much about it.

 

[fundiver199]

Yeah that's what I meant. I thought 86 for a boat or 97 for straight flush very unlikely, as I wouldn't expect villain to open those from HJ with his fairly normal HUD stats

Its kind of on the cusp. 86s and 97s are decent suited 1-gappers, and some players will open these from HJ, while others might not. But even if he has them in his range, its only 2 more combos, Hero lose to, besides the whopping 1 combo of quads. So I still dont think, Hero can ever fold here for 100BB.

There’s a poker theorem that states that we should never fold a full house.

Its called Zeebo´s theorem, but Its kind of the other way around, since it states that:

"No player is capable of folding a full house on any betting round, regardless of the size of the bet"

Zeebo's Theorem | Poker Theorem

Zeebo's Poker theorem is the most reliable out of all of the popular theorems. Find out what Zeebo's theorem is all about in this article.

www.thepokerbank.com

I partially disagree of this theorem when we have trips and ending up forming a boat, when we only have a pocket pair and it comes three equal cards on the board, when we have a pair and hit a full house and then comes three equal cards, in all of these situations we can consider a fold, depending entirely on villain’s profile or tendencies.

Yeah I am also not so sure, this theorem still holds true now 17 years later. In the example given on thepokerbank are people really mindlessly piling in money with QX on AAQQY board? I dont think so. Most people these days are at least thinking on level 2, and its not that difficult to understand, that the opponent could have an A in their hand, and that this will have your Q beat.

 

[fundiver199]

Good example of why we should normally not fold a full house on the river: