$10 NL HE 6-max: $10 NL HE 6-max: Tough Spot - What Would You Do?

[smerald]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.05/$.10

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

VP$IP

26

PFR

19

AF

5

Currency

$

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 26/19/5
pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 4 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

smedirk (UTG): $7.75 (78 bb)
Ercdaddy85 (BU): $10.26 (103 bb)
joshuamusick98 (SB): $17.11 (171 bb)
dmg3000 (BB): $9.04 (90 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero (smedirk) is UTG with 6♦ 6♣
smedirk (UTG) raises to $0.22, Ercdaddy85 (BU) calls $0.22, 2 players fold

Flop: ($0.59) 6♥ 9♦ 5♥ (2 players)
smedirk (UTG) checks, Ercdaddy85 (BU) bets $0.34, smedirk (UTG) raises to $0.85, Ercdaddy85 (BU) calls $0.51

Turn: ($2.29) 7♣ (2 players)
smedirk (UTG) checks, Ercdaddy85 (BU) bets $1.31, smedirk (UTG) calls $1.31

River: ($4.91) K♦ (2 players)
smedirk (UTG) checks, Ercdaddy85 (BU) bets $4.66, smedirk (UTG) calls $4.66

Hello Everyone - I was faced with a touch decision on the river here and decided to make the call. What would you do? What do you think he has?

Thanks ahead of time for your input.

 

[pep12343]

Es una mano muy difícil, si tuvieras que analizar su juego te diría que tiene las siguientes manos posibles (AA KK 8-9 7-8 6-8 5-8 ).
Ya en el río, creo que tiene las siguientes manos:
AA (no supo retirarse y le ganarás)
KK (ganarás en el river y el valor de la apuesta que hagas corresponde)
Todavía existe la posibilidad de una escalera y un farol con algún proyecto de color fallido, p
ero yo me inclino por KK

Respecto a lo que haría:
Me gustan dos tipos de opciones, retirar las cartas en el turno o subir.
una vez en el río creo que call

Si pudiera revelarnos cuáles eran sus cartas.

 

[gustav197poker]

I would fold preflop to a depth of 78 bb. With 100 bb I could sometimes open from UTG but I definitely don't hate the fold pre.
The flop is quite coordinated. In this texture I prefer a C range bet. If I'm faced with a raise I can 3-bet, but against BTN I prefer to play calling.
As played is reasonable, but it's a bit of a predictable game when BTN can have a lot of hands that you beat.
The turn is bad for our range but it also doesn't have much impact on range V, so I'm fine defending myself against a bet of a little more than half the pot.
The river is a bit dry since it doesn't change the perspective of the opponent's range much. If we reach this point it is acceptable to call, but from experience I know that a good part of the time we will lose with better hands (over sets for instance).
Greetings.

 

[gardin555]

Seems he had heart suited connectors: or
But is hard to guess without any other info about the player, his numbers, how he play, what kind of player he is.
I hope you won the hand, well played! 🙂👍

 

[smerald]

Respecto a lo que haría:
Me gustan dos tipos de opciones, retirar las cartas en el turno o subir.
una vez en el río creo que call

Si pudiera revelarnos cuáles eran sus cartas.

I probably should have considered folding or raising on turn but that may be since I know the end result. I checked a solver and it suggested a fold on the turn but a call on the river as played. See the Villain's hand below by the way. I lost this pot, unfortunately. I initially was leaning toward folding but after a lot of thought I talked myself into making the call haha.

Showdown:
Ercdaddy85 (BU) shows 8♥ 8♠ (a straight, Five to Nine)

I would fold preflop to a depth of 78 bb. With 100 bb I could sometimes open from UTG but I definitely don't hate the fold pre.

Hmm, I do not think I would fold this pre-flop 4-handed. You will have to convince me otherwise

Seems he had heart suited connectors: or
But is hard to guess without any other info about the player, his numbers, how he play, what kind of player he is.
I hope you won the hand, well played! 🙂👍

Good guess; you had the 8♥

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Definitely a standard open. Open folding any pocket pair from CO would be insanely nitty.

Flop
I like going for a check-raise on this wet board. Even if you are behind to a flopped straight, you still have equity. However your sizing is very small. You made it $0,51 more for him to call to win a pot of $2,29, so your raise was less than half pot. The whole point of a check-raise is to get more money into the pot, so this is not enough. Something like $1,2 is much better.

Turn
Now there is a 1-liner to a straight, which is of course not, what you wanted to see. The correct decision here is definitely to slow down and check-call. You might still have the best hand, and if not you have 10 outs to boat up. So you are both drawing and bluffcatching at the same time.

River
A brick and unfortunately he bet again. He is representing an 8, and unless he is bluffing, this is, what he have. There is a busted flushdraw, which he could be bluffing with. But he bet almost full pot, so you are not getting a good price. Personally I lean towards a fold here. Its not like, it difficult for him to have an 8, so there is a ton of value, you lose you, and probably not enough bluffs to call almost full pot.

 

[Station_Master]

He has basically got an 8 or is bluffing on the river. So you need to consider how many 8s he arrives with, in a tighter configuration not many, but 4 handed BU v CO he is probably flatting all sorts. 87s, 98s, T8s, A8s, 88 maybe even 86s or J8s. Whereas bluffs you would expect are mostly flush draws, there's plenty available, but would they play this way or would they rather take a free card on the turn?

Some of the 8s should fold flop, but your small sizing on the x-raise might have encouraged some floats. You would have to think 87 would 3bet. But there are still 6 combos of 88, 1 A8s, 4 98s, 1 T8s and maybe some others.

It's probably a fold, but hard to fold a set in game.

 

[fundiver199]

But there are still 6 combos of 88, 1 A8s, 4 98s, 1 T8s and maybe some others.

The only 8Xs, which is reduced to 1 combo, is 86s, because we hold two of the 6`s. 98s, 87s and 85s (is he is that loose) are 3 combos each, and A8s is 4 combos. And of course if he can have any kind of offsuit hands with an 8 in them, then there are far more combos of those.

 

[Station_Master]

The only 8Xs, which is reduced to 1 combo, is 86s, because we hold two of the 6`s. 98s, 87s and 85s (is he is that loose) are 3 combos each, and A8s is 4 combos. And of course if he can have any kind of offsuit hands with an 8 in them, then there are far more combos of those.

I was assuming A8s without the flush draw would fold to the check raise, but of course it may not when it's a small sizing especially if it has bdfd. Same with T8s I thought it would be a bit loose to call on the flop without the flush draw.

You are right if he is ever flatting 98o for example then he suddenly has loads of possible 8s

 

[Aballinamion]

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 26/19/5
PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 4 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

smedirk (UTG): $7.75 (78 bb)
Ercdaddy85 (BU): $10.26 (103 bb)
joshuamusick98 (SB): $17.11 (171 bb)
dmg3000 (BB): $9.04 (90 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero (smedirk) is UTG with 6♦ 6♣
smedirk (UTG) raises to $0.22, Ercdaddy85 (BU) calls $0.22, 2 players fold

Flop: ($0.59) 6♥ 9♦ 5♥ (2 players)
smedirk (UTG) checks, Ercdaddy85 (BU) bets $0.34, smedirk (UTG) raises to $0.85, Ercdaddy85 (BU) calls $0.51

Turn: ($2.29) 7♣ (2 players)
smedirk (UTG) checks, Ercdaddy85 (BU) bets $1.31, smedirk (UTG) calls $1.31

River: ($4.91) K♦ (2 players)
smedirk (UTG) checks, Ercdaddy85 (BU) bets $4.66, smedirk (UTG) calls $4.66

Hello Everyone - I was faced with a touch decision on the river here and decided to make the call. What would you do? What do you think he has?

Thanks ahead of time for your input.

Easy spot but I’m not sure about the check-raise on the flop. Given that this a medium connected flop/turn we could be calling to realize our equity. Okay, there aren’t too many combos of 87 and 88, plus 99 and 77, but the defendor has a wide calling range and we shouldn’t be surprised if they already hit something.
We cannot fold a bottom set like this but I think that we cannot raise it as well, so we call it down the river to realize our equity. If we lose good luck for villain and nice hand and if we win we got a considerable amount of blinds with no further effort.

 

[fundiver199]

I was assuming A8s without the flush draw would fold to the check raise, but of course it may not when it's a small sizing especially if it has bdfd. Same with T8s I thought it would be a bit loose to call on the flop without the flush draw.

Its true, that not all 8X in his preflop range nessesarely get to the turn like this. But rather than getting bogged down in defining his exact range, I think, we can just go with a general population read, that a big river bet in the micros is usually for value. And in this case the opponent bet almost 50BB, which definitely qualify as a big bet.

This can also be explained theoretically. No poker player in the world like to fold a big hand, and when a bet is very big like 50BB, game theory dictate, that we are supposed to fold even fairly strong hands. But people hate doing that, so unless they are very disciplined, or the money matter to them, they will naturally tend to call to much.

And in a 10NL online game a 50BB river bet is still only 5$, which is the price of a cup of coffee. Nobody is scared of losing 5$, and therefore most people will do, what OP did, and call. This makes big river bluffs unprofitable in the micros. And of course players adjust to this by not bluffing as much, as they should to be balanced, or at least the regs do.

Finally it should also be mentioned, that Hero lose to higher sets as well as the straight. Maybe Villain think, Hero dont have s straight, when he check the turn, and actually go for thin value with his bigger sets. So if we feel, we absolutely must call without a straight sometimes, then 99 is a better hand to call with, because then at least we beat the other sets. And we also block 98, which is a somewhat more likely hand for him to have than 86.

 

[smerald]

Easy spot but I’m not sure about the check-raise on the flop. Given that this a medium connected flop/turn we could be calling to realize our equity. Okay, there aren’t too many combos of 87 and 88, plus 99 and 77, but the defendor has a wide calling range and we shouldn’t be surprised if they already hit something.
We cannot fold a bottom set like this but I think that we cannot raise it as well, so we call it down the river to realize our equity. If we lose good luck for villain and nice hand and if we win we got a considerable amount of blinds with no further effort.

I initially thought that I needed to raise more on the flop but you are suggest to have called. That also seems to be be the solvers preferred choice although it would raise little over a quarter of the time. Is the thought process that you are both representing a wider range for them to continue to bluff if they do not have it while minimizing the loss if they already hit on the connected board? For whatever reason at the time, I was very intent on raising that flop and was just not sure for how much lol

 

[Aballinamion]

I initially thought that I needed to raise more on the flop but you are suggest to have called. That also seems to be be the solvers preferred choice although it would raise little over a quarter of the time. Is the thought process that you are both representing a wider range for them to continue to bluff if they do not have it while minimizing the loss if they already hit on the connected board? For whatever reason at the time, I was very intent on raising that flop and was just not sure for how much lol

If they were bluffing they fold and if they have draws they call. And if they have a sequence or a better set we are dead. I never use solvers.

 

[smerald]

If they were bluffing they fold and if they have draws they call. And if they have a sequence or a better set we are dead. I never use solvers.

Makes sense, thanks. I’ve only recently gotten back into poker, so don’t have too much exposure to GTO or solvers myself. I think this is the first time using one for a hand review so tbd if I get any value from it. Thanks again!

 

[fundiver199]

I initially thought that I needed to raise more on the flop but you are suggest to have called. That also seems to be be the solvers preferred choice although it would raise little over a quarter of the time. Is the thought process that you are both representing a wider range for them to continue to bluff if they do not have it while minimizing the loss if they already hit on the connected board? For whatever reason at the time, I was very intent on raising that flop and was just not sure for how much lol

I tried to plug your hand into GTO Wizard, but apparently the free version now only allow BB to call. The other seats can only fold or 3-bet, and therefore its no longer possible to analyse a spot, where someone called in position or from SB. But with that being said, when solvers take a passive line with strong hands, its generally to protect weaker parts of their range. They dont want to end up in a situation, where they are very capped, and therefore sets are likely both C-bet, check-called and check-raised at some frequenzy. Because in that way the solver can always have a boat, if the board end up pairing.

 

[Aballinamion]

I tried to plug your hand into GTO Wizard, but apparently the free version now only allow BB to call. The other seats can only fold or 3-bet, and therefore its no longer possible to analyse a spot, where someone called in position or from SB. But with that being said, when solvers take a passive line with strong hands, its generally to protect weaker parts of their range. They dont want to end up in a situation, where they are very capped, and therefore sets are likely both C-bet, check-called and check-raised at some frequenzy. Because in that way the solver can always have a boat, if the board end up pairing.

I like you are around and posting here on the cash thread. But if you don’t mind, I would like to criticize your posts a little: in my opinion, you do a much better hand analysis when you are not recurring to solvers!
Correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve read one of your posts that you declared that solvers are an effective tool when both players are very good (regulars/professionals).
Most of the hands that come to us aren’t played for these type of players so why are we wasting our time asking what GTO Wizard or any other solver would do in a situation where player A is a student and player B is an unknown, most likely a recreational?
Does GTO solvers can be used for the micro stakes? Is it good or does it just increases the overthinking?

 

[smerald]

I tried to plug your hand into GTO Wizard, but apparently the free version now only allow BB to call. The other seats can only fold or 3-bet, and therefore its no longer possible to analyse a spot, where someone called in position or from SB. But with that being said, when solvers take a passive line with strong hands, its generally to protect weaker parts of their range. They dont want to end up in a situation, where they are very capped, and therefore sets are likely both C-bet, check-called and check-raised at some frequenzy. Because in that way the solver can always have a boat, if the board end up pairing.

Thanks for the follow up. Very helpful. For GTO Wizard, go to settings and change bet sizing to general and I think it should allow you to select call. Same thing was happening to me.

Does GTO solvers can be used for the micro stakes? Is it good or does it just increases the overthinking?

This is a fair point. Can’t overthink things at the stakes we are at but it’s fun to try understand the game at a higher level.

 

[fundiver199]

Does GTO solvers can be used for the micro stakes? Is it good or does it just increases the overthinking?

There is a risk of overthinking, and I am not suggesting, that we should try to play perfect GTO poker in the micros. But it is still interesting to see, how a solver handle different situations. And especially ones that are not so clear like this one, where a 1-liner comes in on the turn. But rather than trying to perfectly copy the solver, for me the goal is to understand, why it does, what it does. In essense by knowing, what the equilibrium is, we should be better able to decide on good exploits instead of doing something solely based on "feel".

 

[Mac557]

As played and given the stakes I probably find a fold OTR, people just aren't bluffing here and your hand is pretty face up.

I would just Cbet the flop for large sizing and from there you avoid this particular issue with feeling your hand may be under-represented and being almost forced by your emotions to call because of how you played the previous streets.