What results to aim for in MTTs

Well, even the best player on the planet is not going to get final table every time - so what results would be acceptable for a decent player. And when I say decent player, I mean decent at that buy in. We will assume that kid poker is not playing at $1 buy in events...

So per 20 tournaments, how many fails/ small ITMs and final tables?

12/ 7/ 1? This would probably mean you making money with the ITM paying for your entrances and the FT being profit.

or should you be looking to make ITM more frequently and make money from your ITMs - something like

10/9/1?

Or are both these pretty unrealistic?

Interested to know what you aiming for and what sort of results are you achieving at the moment.

I just go for the win every time.

I don't care about small cashes or busting out before the bubble, on the bubble, or whatever. All small cash does is cushion the downswings until I make a deep run. I just aim for the deep runs, to get to the final table, do some ICM navigating to get to top 3, and play for the win. I'm not afraid to put my MTT life at risk or to risk easy small cashes to play for big pots to put myself in better position to make the final table.

It really depends on what type of MTT structure you are playing.

Are you playing in a field of 100? or 5000?

odds of making it to the final table between the two is a 50X difference. My typical MTT take10 hours. 5 hours to make ITM.

But if you are playing 2 table MTT with 18 players, you pretty much better make it to the final table 52% of the time.

I personally aim for at least getting ITM in any MTT I enter. Of course the preferred goal is the final table or a first place finish, but I usually make that call depending on if I'm receiving good cards or not as well as where I am in the standings once it's getting close to being the bubble. If I might just squeak into a low ITM finish, I'll be more aggressive once ITM, not necessarily caring if I last much longer than that since I've made my personal goal to profit, no matter how little it is.

It depends on payout structure. You want to gain money overall, so just getting ITM is not overly profitable. Out of 100 tourneys, I expect to get in the money around 20%. But I am looking to get there with a large enough stack to continue.

Final table depends on the number of people entered and table size. Total entries divided by table size is x. You should get to the final table no less than 1:x.

example: 150 players at a six-man table mtt. 150/6 =25. You should get there at least one out of 25 times or you are below average.


example 2: 1800 players at a nine-man table mtt. 1800/9=200. One final table out of 200 is average.

Shoot for better than average.

ohshootmybad said:

I just go for the win every time.

I don't care about small cashes or busting out before the bubble, on the bubble, or whatever. All small cash does is cushion the downswings until I make a deep run. I just aim for the deep runs, to get to the final table, do some ICM navigating to get to top 3, and play for the win. I'm not afraid to put my MTT life at risk or to risk easy small cashes to play for big pots to put myself in better position to make the final table.

Click to expand...

Your reply has been running around my head for a while. I have been min cashing a lot, but have been playing too defensively. And you right, min cashing really is nothing to write home about.

That's not to say I need to go crazy, but I must let good opportunities pass me because I am close to min cashing or waiting for others to tank. Came 20/1300 the other night at GG and won the $250 gtd PL08 today - so definitely playing more positively. Thanks!

I tend to try to win but when I’m getting close to being ITM, I’ll slow down and make the cash. I’ll usually play tight again after the bubble as a lot of players will go crazy right after bubble.

I usually play larger $1 tournaments with thousands on entrants. I min cash above 50% of the time. Haven’t made a FT yet as it’s tough with this many entrants. I’ve gotten top 100 probably 10% of the time which gives me back about 5x entry fee. Overall I’m slightly profitable.

Playing the CardsChat freerolls with 250-300 players I’ve cashed in 3 out of 10 tournaments. Small sample size to be sure. I bubbled the FT once. Hoping to get there soon.

amatola said:

Well, even the best player on the planet is not going to get final table every time - so what results would be acceptable for a decent player. And when I say decent player, I mean decent at that buy in. We will assume that kid poker is not playing at $1 buy in events...

So per 20 tournaments, how many fails/ small ITMs and final tables?

12/ 7/ 1? This would probably mean you making money with the ITM paying for your entrances and the FT being profit.

or should you be looking to make ITM more frequently and make money from your ITMs - something like

10/9/1?

Or are both these pretty unrealistic?

Interested to know what you aiming for and what sort of results are you achieving at the moment.

Click to expand...

The optimal results question is very hard to answer without knowing more about your overall approach to the game. For example; do you register with 100BB+ stacks early on, or are you a late regger? What are the average field sizes of the MTTs you play? Are you also playing SNGs or Ring Games?

For me personally, I have found a good mix of playing 6 max hypers (to keep my late game play in tune) and late regging MTTs that are close to the bubble. My MTT results (framed to answer your original question) are around 12/5/3.

I can elaborate on my MTT style if you would like, but I will give you the general idea below:

Search for MTTs that are 30 minutes or less away from closing registration.

Register if 1 double up would put you in a better than average spot to cash.

9 max games are preferred.

Once registered, pick good spots to shove. You are looking to double, or scoop blinds as much as possible (depending on the table dynamic).

Once ITM, play patient but take any +EV spot vs small stacks, and avoid thin spots against stacks that can cripple you. This is a balance between "playing to win" and surviving. You have to do both.

Oh yeah, and stick with good BRM.

Let me know if you have questions.

J$

Psyanide14 said:

I tend to try to win but when I’m getting close to being ITM, I’ll slow down and make the cash. I’ll usually play tight again after the bubble as a lot of players will go crazy right after bubble.

I usually play larger $1 tournaments with thousands on entrants. I min cash above 50% of the time. Haven’t made a FT yet as it’s tough with this many entrants. I’ve gotten top 100 probably 10% of the time which gives me back about 5x entry fee. Overall I’m slightly profitable.

Playing the CardsChat freerolls with 250-300 players I’ve cashed in 3 out of 10 tournaments. Small sample size to be sure. I bubbled the FT once. Hoping to get there soon.

Click to expand...

This sounds like a pretty solid overall approach to playing. Be patient, you will make some FTs. As you develop your game a bit more, you will probably find more spots near the bubble (both sides of it) to add to your stack.

amatola said:

Your reply has been running around my head for a while. I have been min cashing a lot, but have been playing too defensively. And you right, min cashing really is nothing to write home about.

That's not to say I need to go crazy, but I must let good opportunities pass me because I am close to min cashing or waiting for others to tank. Came 20/1300 the other night at GG and won the $250 gtd PL08 today - so definitely playing more positively. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Majority of the time, I get pass the bubble without even trying. I don't purposely fold myself into the money, that's just how it happens with most of my cashes.

It's the times where I'm playing for a big pots that are vital to running deep, even if it's close to the bubble. For example, getting it in with AK vs QQ for a 90 BB pot 3 spaces away from the bubble. Some might say say it's not worth to risk 45 BBs with AK so close to the money, especially when it's a guaranteed cash and I still have a lot of BBs to play with if I fold.

But I want that big stack. I want those 90 BBs because it puts me in a much better position to run deep. Yes, 50% of the time, I bust out and don't make anything. Oh well. Run that scenario 10x and if I fold, I can almost guarantee I make the money 10/10x, but I might not run as deep as I can with 90 BBs. It's not guaranteed I'll run deep with 90 BBs, but it's a lot easier to do so than with 45 BBs. So, by taking the 50/50 risk, I cash less often but I also end up cashing a lot more when I run deep by setting myself up with a much bigger stack. So, less cashing for high cash prize is a solid trade off.

If I'm being 100% honest, I'm not even a good MTT player nor am I a serious poker player. At best, I consider myself subpar. I have a ton of leaks, my 3 handed game is super weak, and there is a lot of room for improvement. I only play online MTTs for fun, which is why I stick to $1 MTTs. So, it's not like I'm doing anything special to make deep runs. I just fold a lot and go for max value with my big hands. Nothing fancy or anything, just a straight forward basic strategy and that works well enough.

It's important to note that I play in small fields, between 50-300 players majority of the time. So, it is a little easier to do better in smaller fields than it is in larger fields. I wont deny that I wouldn't have the same results if I was playing fields of 500-3000 players. Field size is a big factor in my results.