Over betting for value

#1 2nd June 2018, 5:01 PM

Hey Guys,
I played a really interesting hand yesterday in my tournament that I wanted to discuss. In this hand I was dealt 8H6H in late position and opened raised, I get called by the other big stack at the table and we are heads up. Both of us at the time had a massive chip lead with over 100 BB each.

Flop comes 7H9HX, so i flop an opened ended straight flush draw. I bet he calls.

turn is the QH, so i hit my flush, I bet again and he calls.

River brings the 5H, so i hit my straight flush with a four flush on the board, I decided to shove my remaining 30,000 into a 11,000 chip pot, hoping he has an ace high flush or maybe a K high flush. Villian thinks about it for a while but then ultimately folds. My mind set was that I could win a massive pot had he had the AceH in his hand, but looking back maybe I over played it. What do you guys think?

#2 2nd June 2018, 5:58 PM

They always say hind-sight is 20/20! Maybe he had a King, Ace, or Jack even. Probably the best move, now that you know, was to lay out just a 2-3x BB bet making you to appear weak. He may have come over the top with a considerably larger bet.

#3 2nd June 2018, 7:36 PM

there are 4 to a flush on board so only hands calling an over shove otr are hands holding Ah and MAYBE Kh, we cant really check raise otr with the 4hs on board. i would value bet 3/4 pot otr, if he has Ah hes going to get it in anyway.

without 4h on board and we have straigh flush we can play differently as he has more value to bet otr that we can check raise all in.

#4 3rd June 2018, 12:52 AM

What kind of hand did you have your opponent on? Since he called your preflop raise, your bet on the flop, then also on the turn when the Qh came out, seems like he might have had something like AQ. Now if he had the Ah in his hand, I would think you probably might have gotten raised on the turn. It's just not usually that likely your opponent has suited hole cards, so maybe he was just playing it carefully, or trying to catch you bluffing with AK or JJ? Either way, without his behavior giving you clues to the contrary, I think a really weak river bet might have been in order to induce a steal or bluff attempt from the other big stack.

#5 3rd June 2018, 1:30 AM

Depends on the players and tournament if I had flush on a 289 JQ board knowing my opponent had a ten in their hand I would over bet.
If it was huge tournament and your opponent had a marginal hand bet quarter or half pot river but mix your play up.
You have to use your instincts game to game.
There is no right or wrong way here what works perfectly in one hand will backfire in the next hand with same situation good luck.

#6 3rd June 2018, 6:57 PM

The time to set up your play would've have been on the turn.

#7 3rd June 2018, 7:30 PM

I join the words about 2/3 of the bank, it would be like a bluff and could provoke an opponent to push all in.

#8 3rd June 2018, 7:46 PM

I like personally the over bet in this spot because you should try to go for the max and not let your opponent with an simple call here anyway without A or K it is normally a fold here even with pot bet by shoving there is also a littlte chance he think you are bluffing (very little )

#9 3rd June 2018, 8:20 PM

He might have had an over pair or a weak flush so he was afraid too call.If you have bet smaller maybe he had called.

#10 3rd June 2018, 8:22 PM

Yes I think you should've bet maybe half the pot , if he has the A he'll raise you and if he doesn't he might still call . Good luck next time .

#11 3rd June 2018, 8:28 PM

No value in that shove.

Unclear as to who was first to act, but a smaller bet might have been called = value.

#12 3rd June 2018, 9:01 PM

I think the right way to bet would be 3/4 pot, if he calls then keep that as your main betting range. Maybe you would get lucky on the river and he hits something and over-bet you and then there you would make and excellent win.

#13 4th June 2018, 8:51 AM

Originally Posted by KielBasaa

Hey Guys,
I played a really interesting hand yesterday in my tournament that I wanted to discuss. In this hand I was dealt 8H6H in late position and opened raised, I get called by the other big stack at the table and we are heads up. Both of us at the time had a massive chip lead with over 100 BB each.

Flop comes 7H9HX, so i flop an opened ended straight flush draw. I bet he calls.

turn is the QH, so i hit my flush, I bet again and he calls.

River brings the 5H, so i hit my straight flush with a four flush on the board, I decided to shove my remaining 30,000 into a 11,000 chip pot, hoping he has an ace high flush or maybe a K high flush. Villian thinks about it for a while but then ultimately folds. My mind set was that I could win a massive pot had he had the AceH in his hand, but looking back maybe I over played it. What do you guys think?

Never shove like that, like ever. You have the nuts, what can realistically call your shove and risk entire stack? only Ahigh flush, almost everything rest folds. But in case villain has Ahigh flush, he is never not getting it in on the river. Also, that X is very important in terms of full houses, in case it is a paired board, then flush can not call you, even some full houses can not call.
Therefore, the only way you get payed is if the opponent has 2nd nuts or something, and what are the chances for that?
Bet smaller, if you have a read or history on your opponent, you might even check it hoping he bluffs the river, considering it is a 4 card flush, he can make a shot at it, and bluff you of sets, weaker flushes and so...
Anyways, shoving for value is not a thing, even if you see someone shoving like that, and another one calling, that just means you are pretty much looking at two players who play without putting any thought to it..

#14 4th June 2018, 5:34 PM

I would bet 65% of the pote, shove was too bad since I would only call K or A.

#15 6th June 2018, 3:31 AM

If he folds to an overbet, that doesn't mean that he would call a smaller bet necessarily, so an overbet is often worth making because it needs to be called a smaller % of the time for the play to be profitable.

#16 6th June 2018, 7:38 PM

Maybe try going 1.5 pot.

#17 6th June 2018, 7:54 PM

I see it was an excellent hand, but you could tell that your hand was weak or bluffing.

If he really had Ace or King, he would probably pay or even make a big raise. It would be at this time that you should come in with everything, going All-in.

Being that the chances of making a Straight flush are very low, if the villain has notion of such things, but, congratulations to the beautiful pot pulled ...

Hugs KielBasaa

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Over betting for value

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