Damned if I do, Damned if I don't?

I had this situation come up deep in a MTT and it made me ponder... I am early position with a small stack, only 12 players left with blinds at somewhere around 1k/500.

Every single time I raise, doesn't matter how much, everyone folds. This has occured for about an hour.

I need to actually make some chips... and I get AA in the hole. This is where I would like some info.

I limp in... I know most would say not to, but I can't get any action with any raise, the only prob is when I smooth call, I tell everyone I got a huge pocket pair.

Anyways Button calls, flop comes 3 7 9 . Guy bets I call, J comes... Long story short is he has J 9 off and ends up hitting the two pair to beat my pocket rockets.

What should have I done? Should I have just raised and got the blinds and still be in the same nearly last place position? Or should have I shoved on the Flop?

I feel like I was screwed either way, one of those times where you get absolutely nothing so you get established as a really tight player and never get action... I dunno,

What you think?

This has everything to do with your stack size in relation to the average stack size...along with the particular stack sizes of those around you. Also, if there's only 12 players left...that means you're playing 6 handed. People respect 6 handed raises far less than 9 handed raises, and for good reason...but that mentality will allow you to raise it from UTG and still get play from a slightly wide range.

Are you saying you checked on that flop? If so, giving players a chance at a turn for free after we limped in preflop is about the worst thing you can do. They have 4 cards to beat you with if the guy in LP checks through...and they might pick up weird draws that we can't possibly put them on.

Raise preflop, bet the flop, play aggressively. With aces, we're looking to win a kinda small pot or stack some turd who can't lay down 99/AK/whatever they have; if we raise we're increasing the pot size and increasing the likelihood of getting all in vs someone

I just called pre. But I did bet the flop, I didn't shove tho. I bet a bit over half the pot.

My opponent's call is expected tho, with him hitting top pair he could easily put me on over cards that missed.

I like your last paragraph a lot, I'll def take that into mind.

I think I'll just stick with being ok taking down the blinds and not try anything tricky in that situation.

If you really need chips and nobody is giving you any action then I dont mind limping preflop. The only difference is I would have raised him all in on the flop. By limping pre you are taking the risk of being beat for the reward of doubling up. After the flop he has 5 outs making him roughly 20% to win, but the other 80% you double up. If you have a decent stack though I would be happy just to take down the blinds.

How many chips did you have? If they fold most of times when you raise, you should raise slightly more often, so that you get more chips and make them think you don't have good hand when you actually do. When you got AA, you should try to shove preflop is not bad as someone would have called if they have AK, AQ, QQ, KK... Of course, that depends on the chip stack and prize structure.

I guess your hand shows why we don't limp with aces. However, I understand your reasoning and your frustration.

Here are my thoughts on what to do. If the table is really tight then consider raising more often and picking up the blinds. The chips certainly won't hurt and with a bit of luck when your aces come along and you open raise again some hero will make a stand with AK because they reckon they have rumbled your play.

There is something about looking down at AA that gets us all excited and I am sure most of us will think we have won the hand already, before a chip has been put in. You see a lot of players slow playing their rockets and just cannot lay them down even on a flush or straighty board when all they've got is one pair. Aces are not unbeatable, equally they do not always give you full value if no-one has aything much they want to play.

If we get no action from our aces then fine, take the blinds and look at the next hand - and remember, the next hand is as likely to be AA as the one we just had.

The_Pup said:

and remember, the next hand is as likely to be AA as the one we just had.

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lmao

Maybe I didn't post it but I had around 12k chips.

I just wanted to add, I really did think and want to open up and raise with more hands but I was getting real rags.

The more ironic thing was I got the AA right when I was gonna raise with ATC.

Thanks for your posts, It seems the consensus is either shove pre (or at least don't limp) and then shove no later than on the flop. (In the small stack situation)

Oh btw it was like a 400ish person tourny for 2 bucks.

tough one...if every1 was folding to your raises...i think limping to get some action was the way to go. but normally i would always raise a-a preflop.

I let the players at my table dictate how I play aces. By that, I mean this:

If you have a bunch of Super loose aggressive players (SLAG), then I don't mind limping. Somebody is bound to come over the top w/ AJ or something stupid like that, giving you a strong opportunity to double up.

If you are playing at what appears to be a strong table, I raise 2x or 3x the BB, with the goal of inducing a call or shove from one of the tight aggressive players (TAG). The reason I don't limp is because if its just you and the big blind seeing the flop, or perhaps 1 other player, you won't get action anyways unless they hit a strong hand. Sure, sometimes you will still have them beat even if they hit, but you are letting them in the door with drawing hands, and the opportunity to hit 2 pair or a set.

Tables that are in between are based on discretion, and my stack size. If I'm short, I'm more likely to limp, since one of the big stacks are liable to try and push me around. If I'm medium, I will usually raise, not trying to risk my medium position on one hand. If I'm really big stacked, I might limp, especially if I've been playing a lot of hands. The reason is that players often get tired of me winning pots, and decide to 'take a stand'. Hopefully, they decide to take a stand at the wrong time.

You can always change things up, but this is my general style for playing the mountains that are aces

if people folded to my raises all the time, i would be fist pumpin to the bak with all the chips.

You dont need callers to chip up. If the table is playing tight, loosen up and steal more. Eventually people will catch on and you will get action, hopefully with good cards. Then just re adjust and tighten a little bit.

Awesome I'm getting a lot more replies than I ever thought I would, and they are all pretty good.

I'm definitely gonna change up the style next time.

One thing tho, is I got more replies saying that the limp pre was ok (I thought everyone would say it was wrong) Then continue it with the shove.

I think that is the best move, I mean the odds of them hitting two pair or whatever is far lower on the flop than by the river.

Hey thanks agian guys.

I think it depends on your opponents style and stack size no matter if you shoved if he has a healthy stack and can afford your shove he'll probably call you and beat you either way with that flop

MrEpic94 said:

if people folded to my raises all the time, i would be fist pumpin to the bak with all the chips.

You dont need callers to chip up. If the table is playing tight, loosen up and steal more. Eventually people will catch on and you will get action, hopefully with good cards. Then just re adjust and tighten a little bit.

Click to expand...

this

raise just like every other hand, eventually they will not belive you and play back, hopefully it's with your aces.

Playing it the same also disguises your hand. the limp says you have something different.

An d if you raise and they all fold, then show the aces so they think you have been raising with the goods all night. And then keep raising every freeking hand until someone fights back. Abuse the Final Table bubble...