bad luck or not your thoughts

tell me your opinions any thoughts are welcome

full tilt poker Game #26317273949: $2 + $0.20 Tournament (203991119), Table 63 - 40/80 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:53:33 ET - 2010/12/11
Seat 1: Free Ronny (7,065)
Seat 2: BullJohn (9,385)
Seat 3: Intiekkeko (4,550)
Seat 4: ninerider (4,200)
Seat 5: Egor Smirnov (6,770)
Seat 6: nat_bornkilla (3,355)
Seat 7: Wmasuxass (4,340)
Seat 8: Excalibur52 (5,280)
Seat 9: hellsin9 (5,647)
Free Ronny posts the small blind of 40
BullJohn posts the big blind of 80
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Intiekkeko [Kc Kd]
Intiekkeko raises to 400
ninerider folds
Egor Smirnov folds
nat_bornkilla: 400 loooooooooooooooolage
nat_bornkilla folds
Wmasuxass folds
Excalibur52 calls 400
hellsin9 folds
Free Ronny folds
BullJohn folds
*** FLOP *** [7d Jd 7s]
Intiekkeko checks
Excalibur52 bets 920
Intiekkeko raises to 4,150, and is all in
Excalibur52 calls 3,230
Intiekkeko shows [Kc Kd]
Excalibur52 shows [Js As]
*** TURN *** [7d Jd 7s] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [7d Jd 7s Jc] [9s]
Intiekkeko shows two pair, Kings and Jacks
Excalibur52 shows a full house, Jacks full of Sevens
Excalibur52 wins the pot (9,220) with a full house, Jacks full of Sevens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9,220 | Rake 0
Board: [7d Jd 7s Jc 9s]
Seat 1: Free Ronny (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: BullJohn (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Intiekkeko showed [Kc Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 4: ninerider didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Egor Smirnov didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: nat_bornkilla didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Wmasuxass didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Excalibur52 showed [Js As] and won (9,220) with a full house, Jacks full of Sevens
Seat 9: hellsin9 (button) didn't bet (folded)

Well, first of all, such a large raise UTG (to me) just screams low PP or suited A rag.

Now if I were your opponent, I would think "Ok, this guy has 66-99, maybe Ax, where x is not a J since I have that hand, and is scared to play a flop with it, but wants to take down a pot with it. If I spike my A or J, I'm good."

Flop comes J high and you shove. Again, why such a huge bet?

Opponent thinks: "Surely if he hit quads with 77 he would bet smaller, or not at all to induce some action on his nut hand. He must hav whiffed and is scared that I called, so he is trying to buy the pot. I call."

Of course your opponent was wrong, as you had KK and got unlucky on the turn. But in all fairness, you made it look like you were weak, which I'm guessing is what you wanted to do, and your opponent played that line accordingly.

A monster hand does not have to equate to a monster pot. A standard UTG raise would have been sufficient. If you followed that by a c-bet and got called, you could have then been able to get away from the hand on the turn after the second J hit the flop. You would have lost some chips, but you would have still been in the tourney.

You were very lucky in that you got someone to call your big raise pre-flop and your giant shove on the flop. You were very unlucky when the second J showed up. Of course if you can you want to build a giant pot like this with KK and get your stack in while you're ahead. KAAHK is correct most times in suggesting you bet a bit smaller. Most times you're just going to get people to fold. Although mixing it up sometimes and overbetting can be good too. If people are paying attention they might think "why the big overbet? he must be bluffing."

So yeah, bet smaller next time probably, but not in the interest of keeping the pot small so you can get away. You want to bet small enough that people will call but big enough that they don't have the right odds to chase any draws they might have. I'd probably make it about 240 preflop, then I probably lead out on the flop for 2/3 pot or so with the two diamonds.

TheKAAHK said:

A monster hand does not have to equate to a monster pot.

Click to expand...

That's true, it doesn't have to. But with KK there's only one hand that we don't dominate, so if we can get it all in we're fist pumping.


Oh, and you should use the ultra-cool hand converter tool:

https://www.cardschat.com/hand/

ManicLombax said:

You were very lucky in that you got someone to call your big raise pre-flop and your giant shove on the flop. You were very unlucky when the second J showed up. Of course if you can you want to build a giant pot like this with KK and get your stack in while you're ahead. KAAHK is correct most times in suggesting you bet a bit smaller. Most times you're just going to get people to fold. Although mixing it up sometimes and overbetting can be good too. If people are paying attention they might think "why the big overbet? he must be bluffing."

So yeah, bet smaller next time probably, but not in the interest of keeping the pot small so you can get away. You want to bet small enough that people will call but big enough that they don't have the right odds to chase any draws they might have. I'd probably make it about 240 preflop, then I probably lead out on the flop for 2/3 pot or so with the two diamonds.



That's true, it doesn't have to. But with KK there's only one hand that we don't dominate, so if we can get it all in we're fist pumping.


Oh, and you should use the ultra-cool hand converter tool:

https://www.cardschat.com/hand/

Click to expand...

This is true preflop. And yes, we are ahead w/ KK on the flop. But the whole board consists of 5 cards, and we have to consider what our opponents are calling our massaive raise with. Esp at micro's, people are willing to stack off with 22+, almost any suited connector 67+ and any A10+ hand. With this in mind, I agree you want to get your money in when you have your opponent dominated, but at the same time, how it was done in thw above example, the situation wasn't favorable. Paired board, and an opponent willing to call a massive overbet preflop. There's more to each individual hand than each individual hand. (i'm a bit drunk, so I hope this makes sense, cuz it does to me at this moment). In essence, you need to take into consideration what your opponent is thinking about your actions.

And yeah, you don't want to bet smaller just in oder to get away from KK. You want to bet smaller inorder to keep control of the hand and thr situation in general.

That being said, you got your money in good and got unlucky. The majority of the time it will hold up and you will double up.

TheKAAHK said:

There's more to each individual hand than each individual hand.

Click to expand...

I like that! Sounds very Zen. Or maybe Yoda.

"Mmhh, more to each hand there is... than each hand"



I agree we should stop and think when our opponent calls a big pf raise and then bets out on this flop. I don't think there are too many 7's in his range. He's likely 3-betting AA preflop unless he's in a trappy sort of mood. He could have a set of J's I suppose, but I think most times we're up against a pair of Jacks or a smaller PP. I'm happy to get it in on this flop if my opponent wants to unless I think he's a total nit.

I think the only time I'd want to control the pot with KK would be in a situation where I had a big stack at a final table or on the bubble of a STT, and got into it with another big stack. Even there, though, I'd hate to bust out, but doubling up would be huge too.

Ok done rambling I guess.