All-in with JJ preflop in early tournament stages?

#1 January 18th, 2019, 9:13 PM

At the beginning of a tournament without Rebuy would you pay an all-in with JJ after giving a 3-bet on an opponent?

#2 January 18th, 2019, 9:16 PM

you need to have a good read about your opponent, if you have a HUD, you can get more information about him

#3 January 18th, 2019, 9:31 PM

depends on the buy-in, number of participants and bankroll. not much info to make a decision.

#4 January 18th, 2019, 10:33 PM

Hard decision when it’s early in the game and you do not have much info and insight on that player.

In my experience you should consider folding because probably the best situation you will find yourself in is a coinflip. Getting into too many hands in which you are not a big favorite will cost you a tournament too often.

If your stack is still big enough to move on after saying goodbye to your 3bet then you do not need to take the 50% risk of getting busted and can still make it ITM in the end....

#5 January 18th, 2019, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by BOTAFOGOES1

At the beginning of a tournament without Rebuy would you pay an all-in with JJ after giving a 3-bet on an opponent?

This is a fold without any further information.
In most cases you're flipping and if you're comfortable risking your stack so early in a tournament, go for it.

#6 January 19th, 2019, 5:04 AM

It depends on the opponent if he is playing loose worth shove to 3bet if the opponent plays more nit worth giving a cold call or depending make a 4 bet depends on whether the action closes on you and the player for NIT is worth giving cold call if it is a calling Station worth giving a 4 bet raise or even a 4 bet all in.

We have to play with strong hands, valuing our game.

All-in with JJ preflop in early tournament stages?

All-in with JJ preflop in early tournament stages?

mateuspoker

#7 January 19th, 2019, 8:30 AM

If I paid 5k to enter, I would probably fold and wait. Even if you doubled up you still have a large field. Later....after hiding in the weeds for a bit...the field will be trimmed down and this play may make better sense if offered the same opportunity. All-in with JJ preflop in early tournament stages?

#8 January 19th, 2019, 8:38 AM

Yes, I like to try all-in JJs for the first level (or two). If I survive, I have a good starting stack, and then I play tight.

#9 January 19th, 2019, 6:38 PM

JJ readless is not good enough to get it in preflop the first hand of the tourney. If you had reads that the villan would call with something like AJo then you could get it in with AKo or JJ.

#10 January 19th, 2019, 6:53 PM

Its too risky! Pay attention on positions, calls, and on.

#11 January 19th, 2019, 7:13 PM

I think it depends on tournament buy-in and if it isn't a really huge tourney that I would risk because in early stage a lot of players could shove lower pairs or Ace with not that big kicker it alsi depends if player is playing really tight or aggro

#12 January 19th, 2019, 7:14 PM

I don't like JJ All-in with JJ preflop in early tournament stages?

#13 January 19th, 2019, 8:17 PM

Depends on what you want to achieve from the tournament. Is it just for entertainment or are you playing seriously? A fold would give you a lot more opportunities to win but if you want to flip just for fun then go ahead.

#14 January 19th, 2019, 8:21 PM

Usually I would just flat with JJ early in a tourney, unless we're LP V LP against a aggressive type of player, BAut in my opinion no need to go crazy with Jack's early in a tourney

#15 January 19th, 2019, 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by BOTAFOGOES1

At the beginning of a tournament without Rebuy would you pay an all-in with JJ after giving a 3-bet on an opponent?

After a 3 bet? Late and if the inflections points are low, yes.

Early, probably would want to take more time to get a feel for the players and not risk going out that early.

#16 January 19th, 2019, 9:09 PM

For me, it would depend how deep stacked you are. If it is over 100 BB I think I would hit the fold button and try to find a better spot to get my chips in. I think that around 30-40 BB that I would just ship it in and hope they have Ax or 10s

#17 January 19th, 2019, 9:14 PM

Its all about the feeling you have and what the people are like at the table but I would:0) if the feeling is right its poker, you never know until you call:0)

#18 August 1st, 2019, 12:59 AM

You will likely only get calls from better pocket pairs or 2 overs.

However, if people seem to be calling/shoving light you may be able to get it in vs Ax which would be better.

Alot to risk early on though....

#19 August 1st, 2019, 1:14 AM

If no info, I would probably fold. If it's a freeroll I go all in.

#20 August 1st, 2019, 1:19 AM

Originally Posted by BOTAFOGOES1

At the beginning of a tournament without Rebuy would you pay an all-in with JJ after giving a 3-bet on an opponent?

Definitely not, unless you're in for over 1/3 stack already, call & see a flop.

#21 August 1st, 2019, 2:15 AM

This is pure gambling. If you do that every time you may or may not have a gambling addiction.

#22 August 1st, 2019, 2:40 AM

Nice try. I d done the samething. All in

#23 August 1st, 2019, 3:19 AM

Originally Posted by finaltable1

depends on the buy-in, number of participants and bankroll. not much info to make a decision.

I agree with that, but also need to add a structure. For example if it's 15 min blinds level deep stack for $55+, I'd say it's a fold, you have still so much of time to outplay your villains instead of gambling right now.
But if we play $3 turbo with re-buys, it's a different thing. Call without thinking, as the vast majority of players in those would do shove with a weakers hands.
It really depends.

#24 August 1st, 2019, 4:42 AM

if my stack is double his stack then I would probably call if I had no information. If this is a player that is shoving consistently I would probably call because his hand is mediocre most likely.

But on the other hand, if you don�t have much information and the shove will knock you out or only leave you with a few blinds, then you should really be folding everytime as big as nuisance it may be to fold good cards. There�s a variety of cards that he can beat you with and doubling up in the first part of the tourney doesn�t guarantee you�ll make a deep run or get ITM.

You are instead tossing a coin and hopefully winning, but the tournament is hours away from you cashing and you got a 50% chance of not busting.

Do you really want to gamble your tournament on just one hand when you will be playing hundreds of hands that can help you win?

JJ, AK, AQ, even KK I have learned to get away from more often in the beginning of a tournament and this strategy has helped me get ITM more often since I�m not taken unnecessary risks in the early stages.

If this was after you got in the money then you will want to take some risk so you can make it to the FT with a large stack, but in the beginning it�s best to find better spots

#25 August 1st, 2019, 4:56 AM

I actually dont mind flips early in a tournament as you often gotta win some flips to put yourself in a position to win, but what I do mind is being dominated so if I thought that was likely, I would fold.

But if half of my starting stack is already gone, Im even more likely to gamble with JJ to get back in the game.

I will try to avoid flips with JJ when it could do serious damage to a stack I worked hard to build.

#26 August 1st, 2019, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by alienat3d

I agree with that, but also need to add a structure. For example if it's 15 min blinds level deep stack for $55+, I'd say it's a fold, you have still so much of time to outplay your villains instead of gambling right now.
But if we play $3 turbo with re-buys, it's a different thing. Call without thinking, as the vast majority of players in those would do shove with a weakers hands.
It really depends.

Do you know what highrollers think about JJ? They never fold it, and in a 3bet pot it's always pre-flop all-in, against any opponent. I'm observing high roller games for several years each time when I play poker. I met one of the polish pros during last SCOOP in $11 bounty, he had JJ, i had AA... check what happened:

starting stack is 25K, both of us have approx 500K = approx 100bb "SosickPL" bets 2.2bb in utg1, table is very chatty, guy in mid position 3bets, another player after him calls, I'm on the button holding aces and 4bet x5 that last bet. SosickPL instantly shoves, other guys fold, I call.. JJ vs AA, flop is T Q K, turn is blank, river is A, he makes a straight, players in MP who folded after that hand said that one of them had 99, other one had AK. Is there a need to say that hitting such str8 draw flop is like less than 1% chance, and we can easily calculate that he has 3 outs after the flop. That's sick isn't it? I knew that this tourney was like a freeroll to him, but still, he opened with 2.2BB, saw a 3bet-4bet, and shoves 100bb stack with JJ. What's the logic? He was thinking that he's against 3 opponents each holding AK or something?

#27 August 1st, 2019, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by alienat3d

I agree with that, but also need to add a structure. For example if it's 15 min blinds level deep stack for $55+, I'd say it's a fold, you have still so much of time to outplay your villains instead of gambling right now.
But if we play $3 turbo with re-buys, it's a different thing. Call without thinking, as the vast majority of players in those would do shove with a weakers hands.
It really depends.

Well, honestly... being 100% honest I would say that MY decision depends on sharkscope data and opponents behavior at the table. Tourneys with 22-109 buy-ins have all my focus and attention, and if some fish there shoving early in the tournament without a good reason - I will call it with JJ any time. Players of all kinds like to get as much value as possible from hands like AA and KK, so more likely they will 3bet instead of going all-in pre-flop. So, it's more likely that fish has shoving range of 22-QQ, A-rags, KQ-JK... And since JJ is on top and dominates most of the hands of this range - then it's an easy call.

What sharkscope data says is the key. I wouldn't perform such call if opponent has played less than 100-200 MTTs with -50% ROI in total... Not much info! The best opponent in such case is the one who plays 1K+ tourneys per year (3-7 per day) during several years and currently has a long losing streak, like 5-10 days long, it means that he's probably on tilt during these days (or maybe even during his whole poker career).

However... PokerStars loves to reward imbeciles shoving their trash hand with incredible post-flop twists, like giving them a prize for starting the action. Recently got screwed in 11 and 22 bounties:

In $11 bounty some schimpanze shoves against my pocket aces with Q2os and hits Queen on the flop and one more at the river. Any comments?

and the sickest hand happened in the 22 bounty. 3-way flop, I'm holding aces again, flop is Ah Jh Qs, smaller stack checks, I bet 60%, bigger stack behind me goes all-in, smaller stack goes all-in, I call... Smaller stack has 8h 9h = flush draw. Biggest stack has 33 = trash underpair to the flop. I'm like "YEAH" Cause I'll have the same amount of chips even if smaller stack makes his flush. And the turn card is 3h = smaller stack makes his flush, and the river is.... 3 of clubs! = bigger stack makes runner-runner quads!! Sick reward for pushing all-in first.

#28 August 1st, 2019, 12:45 PM

Absolutely yes. Very comfortable range at all.

#29 August 2nd, 2019, 4:52 AM

Originally Posted by finaltable1

... Players of all kinds like to get as much value as possible from hands like AA and KK, so more likely they will 3bet instead of going all-in pre-flop.

I think you nailed it here. This has been my experience as well.

Therefore if you 3bet JJ pre flop and you get 4bet about the same amount that you raised, you should consider folding rather than 5 bet/jamming. Alternately I guess you could always call and hope to flop a J knowing full well that you are likely behind if you dont.

Of course this too will one day change as the game is always evolving but for now it will likely serve you well.

#30 August 14th, 2019, 10:30 AM

What is poker? A card game in which more capable liars take money from less gifted liars, all of whom pretend to be bosom friends.

#31 October 29th, 2019, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by BOTAFOGOES1

At the beginning of a tournament without Rebuy would you pay an all-in with JJ after giving a 3-bet on an opponent?

Why would you? Absolutly not. 4bet fine, but i would just call. JJ is no AA you know, and if you get called after jamming, you MOST LIKELY are losing the % or at max get coin flip.

Don't do it. Chips are more valuable late in tournament, you cain nothing with jamming medi hand.

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All-in with JJ preflop in early tournament stages?

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