Jacks against 4-bet shove?

I'm in the BB with 29bb holding JJ in an online mtt, UTG opens, a middle position guy calls and the button calls too. I 3bet x3.5 and the UTG original raiser snap shoves, the two other players fold. He played solid poker, and now he seems so happy to go allin... I really think my hand is no good here, I 'll probably need a jack. So I fold the JJ. I really don't like reraising and fold. How would you play this? Just how strong is a pair of JJ really???

If you believe your read that he in only capable of playing QQ+ in that spot, then good fold.

I probably would do the same, but a few days ago I played a MTT and I caught JJ 4 times and I would think OH CRAP every time, because I've been beat with them so many times I can't count them all. Anyway, each of these hands was all in and I tripped them every time and won a lot of chips. And I won the game. It's funny how one day you do every thing right and you just can't miss, and then there are days when no matter what you do or play, you can't win. Anyway GL to you

JJ is very strong hand, but one time in late stage of tournament i fold jj when opponent all in preflop,and it was right decision because he had AA.

In keeping with PapaC's experience above, I've found that lady luck is indeed fickle. When she's with me (which isn't that often) I can feel her there, and I'll play those Jacks every time for all they're worth. But then there are those days when she's sitting with someone else, and I always lose with pocket Aces.

To answer your question, depending on how far into the tournament you are, the solid players may be shoving with AK, AQ, even AJ or TT. So, you've often got a bit of an edge (i.e., a coin flip). The question I ask myself - do I want to (or need to) risk my tournament life for a chance to double up? I often answer yes, and often end up in a coin flip situation. But, I'd rather take a shot at stardom, than sit back and blind out.

You re raise here out of position so either you hope for all folds or a caller. The caller would have position on you and any Q, K, or A is going to be hell for you in a big pot. In this case he likely did you a favor by snap shoving and saving you money. In the blinds here and in this situation in particular I would simply call and see what develops. Keep it small in other words. On the button I think I call in this example too just to have a positional advantage. In the blinds folding is too weak but raising just creates a headache for you. All folds you win a small pot. Ok. A caller or two and you may be in a tough spot post flop. Likely will be. If shoved on like here you are also in a tough spot. Just meekly call and hope for he best. Being in the blind wrecks the value of your normally very strong hand here.

"Keeping it small" sometimes works to keep yourself out of trouble, although I've often regretted keeping it small when a hand that never would have called a good sized bet pre-flop takes down the pot.

I just lost a hand to TT w/ AK. We (the other guy with AK & the TT guy & my AK) ended up all-in pre-flop. Oddly, had I played AQ, AJ, A5, KK, QQ, JJ, 44, 33, 22, any two hearts, or 65, (and of course AA) I would have won. If the pre-flop betting had been smaller, some of those hands may have played. I didn't shove - the other AK did. You never know.

J0nSn0 said:

I'm in the BB with 29bb holding JJ in an online mtt, UTG opens, a middle position guy calls and the button calls too. I 3bet x3.5 and the UTG original raiser snap shoves, the two other players fold. He played solid poker, and now he seems so happy to go allin... I really think my hand is no good here, I 'll probably need a jack. So I fold the JJ. I really don't like reraising and fold. How would you play this? Just how strong is a pair of JJ really???

Click to expand...

Not enough information about stack sizes etc...

for tournament i treat them like 10s.. easy beat, bet good in position thats about it, or flop good.

5th best hand preflop
I probably bust more tournaments with JJ than any other hand, followed by AK, QQ, KK, AA lol

Play aggressive preflop, avoid going to showdown when you are at risk. Even if you're an 4-1 favorite you'll still bust eventually

Js are good when you have huge stack.

When 3+ players involve in shoving or committed to the pot then mostly pair do not work. In this scenario either Aces I.e. top card wins or some magical Flush happens. In my case, opponent mostly wins by a straight. Lol.

How big was the open and what was your stack to pot ratio? From what info was provided I'd lean towards either flatting there and seeing a flop, or jamming pre. 3bet/fold to 4bet is burning money.

JJ - it is not the hand that you can safely go all-in preflop. First of all, there are three hands against which you will be far behind - is AA, KK, QQ. In addition, you will have only a coinflip against hands like AK, AQ, KQ. And those hands against which you will be well stand in the all-in, are unlikely to be exposed before the flop (well, except that 99, TT, AJ sometimes). But as the jacks still pretty strong pair, open should always raise. The weakness of this pair that determine where you are, you are, with it - a task quite difficult. I recommend the super-aggressive play jacks on the flop with one or no overcards. It is better to immediately determine their chances, than to invest in the bank a lot of money on the later streets. That is, you have to bet first or raise. If you are re-raised on the flop with an overcard, you can safely fold. If you just calls, continue to bet on the turn is a blank or check if another overcard comes.
If nit open shove when you raise with JJ pre-flop you better fold it. Most likely you run in to big pair. If call will cost you no more than 20% of the stack you can call it, even if opponent has big pair you still have outs and chance.

Just for your knowledge SIR when you have a pocket pair in your hand & you get one on the board that is called a set. In order for you to have trips you can only have 1 in your hand & 2 have to be on the board.

Against an aggressive player with pleasure I went all in preflop with JJ, while tight against you reraise me as I've fold and so ..
Yet if I 'm less useful than a philosophical statement will tell you that JJ accept it as a high pair to flop including if I have any additional information about the types of opponents and their game if constipation her sitting quietly by the end of hand ...

In the words of Daniel Negreanu, JJ (and QQ) you are only slightly ahead or way behind. When facing an all-with JJ my decision whether to play the hand will be determined by (1) my stack size (2) my opponent's stack size (3) position (4) and number of players left to act. If my opponent is short and it's only going to cost me 25% or less of my stack to call then I'm calling. If I'm short I'm shoving Jacks. If I have a loose player behind me who's calling everything and someone goes all-in ahead of me I'm thinking twice before making that call. Yes, Jacks are considered a premium hand, but there are 3 hands ahead of me and I've lost more than my share going up against AA, KK, QQ, and sometimes AK.

as a little bit stronger than a mid pair =)
you still can be beat on the flop by 3 card min
shoving is iffy as being called of by rubbish is not likely and hands that would call you are ussualy stronger
so... thats it

In my opinion, if I had pocket Jacks in that position, I would have probably pushed all in depending on the size of the tournament and how much it cost to enter. Pocket jacks is one of those hands that normally gets me into trouble no matter how I play it.. But since you had 29big blinds left, you may have made the right decision.. How long were you playing at the same table?

pocket jacks... its the hand i dont like to mutch , bacause live or online is the hand evrytime kill me , for me depend players i have in table , play that hand like a small pair... in that case i fold , maybe he have strong hand if he play solid poker better respect that allin and go next hand...

Tough spot. Depends imo on the entry cost of MTT and how tight the player is. Micro stake tourneys always call the shove imo.

Is depend if he had fewer cheaps I call because you following play if you lost.

I think I wouldn't risk my tournament life for JJ now, so early , I would go on looking for a better hand and on a better position to 3bet or to shove as well . JJ is not so good.
We have no good position , so we 'd better just call and see the flop if this hand improves or not . 3betting with only 29 blinds I don't know if its good here . So if we have a set or an overpair or better on the flop we bet , if not and if we see too much aggression on a wet flop we just fold .
Now , playing JJ or shoving this pair , depends , except our position , from the position of our vilains , our and their stacks etc. It 's not a yes or not , but you need to be extra carefull because JJ is not so good and we have coin flips that risks our tournament life , but on the other hand if you don't play these hands and you wait for better pairs or hands ,these might not come and you might lose your blinds that have left

Situations happen different, and in everyone with JJ it is possible to do different actions. You have to know as the opponent played before. With what cards he came into a game, with what cards he did raise, what percent of hands is played by the opponent. After that you will know the range of his hands and if you is confident in force of the hand, you will be able aren't afraid to call the opponent with JJ

He open from UTG, and if he is Tight and solid player this is very probably that he had monster hand.
Your squeeze against 3 other players looking very strongly, and if he response to that with all in I think he had somethng big.
If You would call, You would be dominated probably. MAybe coinflip, but I don't think so