Could I have better played this hand?

#Game No : 791462428
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 791462428 *****
$25/$50 Blinds No Limit Holdem - ***
Tournament #80415180 $0.01 - Table #5 9 Max (real money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: DEDR514 ( $970 )
Seat 2: ivan2219 ( $770 )
Seat 3: pamijo1982 ( $1,245 )
Seat 4: IMASHARK99 ( $1,330 )
Seat 5: ferdinandosi ( $910 )
Seat 6: CanadianJag ( $970 )
Seat 7: Slasher1974 ( $910 )
Seat 9: aalexandar ( $1,000 )
Seat 10: Zhekafirsov ( $915 )
ferdinandosi posts small blind [$25]
CanadianJag posts big blind [$50]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to aalexandar [ 8d, Td ]
Slasher1974 raises [$100]
aalexandar calls [$100]
Zhekafirsov calls [$100]
DEDR514 folds
ivan2219 calls [$100]
pamijo1982 calls [$100]
IMASHARK99 folds
ferdinandosi calls [$75]
CanadianJag calls [$50]
** Dealing flop ** [ 3s, 9d, 6d ]
ferdinandosi checks
CanadianJag bets [$50]
Slasher1974 raises [$100]
aalexandar raises [$400]
Zhekafirsov calls [$400]
ivan2219 folds
pamijo1982 folds
ferdinandosi folds
CanadianJag folds
Slasher1974 raises [$600]
aalexandar raises [$500]
Zhekafirsov calls [$415]
Slasher1974 calls [$110]
** Dealing turn ** [ Kd ]
** Dealing river ** [ 7d ]
** Summary **
Slasher1974 shows [ Ks, 9s ]
aalexandar shows [ 8d, Td ]
Zhekafirsov shows [ 6h, Qh ]
aalexandar collected [ $3,180 ]
aalexandar collected [ $10 ]


Just wanted to post this hand and get some feedback on the way I played because I feel like i played well, but like there was something more I could do to keep more people in the pot for more value.. Other than that I may have wanted to humblebrag a bit because I think I played well, but could've gotten more. Still proud of it though.

Honestly, I know it's low-buy in but I'm a sucker for tournament ticket sats and regular sats, don't know why.

I thought I was running pretty well until I realized I only cashed in 2 of the 9 I played this night. And the problem wasn't I was playing bad or on tilt or whatever. I would say I was playing probably what was one of the best poker games I've ever played managing to get good reads on opponents fairly quickly, call down with like Q,K,A high and win just because I knew opponent had air or like get a good bluff going with 4 bets and check raises. Like really in the zone for analysis and strategic thinking. But whenever I would get in a coinflip situation I would lose much more often than I win for some reason, that's why I guess it was a kind of bad run. And everyone knows you can't play an MTT without winning a few coinflips.

Anyway, let me know please what I could've done differently in this hand, and i'll post some more later because I'm wondering about a few others but don't wanna make too lengthy of a post.

It is easy to argue both sides of that flop raise.

-You narrowed the field, which is usually a good thing to do.
--But you chased out a lot of potential money, and you did that on a draw which is usually not such a great idea.

Tell us you have lots of stats on those players which convinced you to call the re-raise.

Else you just got lucky, Twice!

I would have usually folded the 8Ts from EP, unless I had a great stack, but won't fault your decision to enter the pot. I don't like the raise on a 5th nut draw with a gutshot backup plan.

Yeah, the more I think about it, you just got lucky.

Fold preflop. There's too many players left to act for a hand this weak. Had you been CO or BTN, it would be a different matter.

Just call the flop. You're already facing a bet and a raise, and you want as many callers as possible here.
I'd like my draws to be a bit bigger before going to town. Make it an OESD instead of a gutshot straight draw in addition to the flush draw (and maybe two overcards instead of one), and I'm going to town.
You can go crazy on the turn when you hit. Now your equity is good, but not so good that you can just let it rip on the flop.

Fold pre 100% of the time.

Damn, I typed out a giant reply but then accidentally forgot to copy because I tried to switch to regular reply instead of quick... The point was as follows:

I have around 300 hands on both villains on my hud and some notes so I could guess their starting ranges well, also

I raised the flop to get rid of other flush draws and people holding A,K,Q,J of diamonds by representing a really strong hand and making it not worth the gamble on the flush. I personally love the flush draw and will chase the flush most of the time if i feel it'll hold up at showdown. Plus you don't just fold a straight flush opportunity. I was a big favorite on the flop and it's more than obvious.

I put UTG on something around his exact hand because he's the kind of player who shoves any pocket pair, AK,AQ,AJ,KJ,QJ almost always so it was easy to figure he was holding something less than that with the min raise preflop, he doesn't trap often. I was a bit confused after his reraise because it would seem weird reraising and just having like TPTK or 2 over cards or whatever on that board so I figured he was trying to get me and MP off the pot because he figured we were both drawing. Considering I was sure he hit SOMETHING on the flop and it couldn't be a 3 with this betting so I figured he can't be holding 2 diamonds in his hand which made it easier.

As for MP, he's a calling station, total fish. I mean look at him calling down with 6Q of hearts on this board after the raises. I swear I though he might have like 2 over cards, AQ, KQ, AJ whatever and was just fishing for one of those, but I figured if he had a flush draw he'd play that kind of hand more aggressively.

2 streets for a flush, with the chance to knock 2 opponents from the tournament and I was a favorite. Easy play if you ask me, I don't really see the problem. If I hadn't narrowed the field I could've easily been beat by any AJQ of diamonds because 4 diamonds came out in the end. If I had raised less maybe someone with said cards would stick around. And the table was pretty weak with the three of us that were in this hand ever showing any significant aggression. I thought I could get away with calling this from EP and not getting stuck between BU or SB shove or 4bet.

Also about calling 8Ts in EP:

I like how thoughtful and analytical you are! Very well thought out and using the charts +1+1. Although you find the 108 in your calling range (the bottom) I still see it as a fold preflop. Too often you will be outflopped and folding. The fact that you nailed your hand as well as you can on the flop without completing it makes your preflop play skewed to look good. I may be wrong and that's only my opinion, your counter is totally understandable. Beyond that once on the flop I see no problem with your play, given stack sizes and the potential of a diamond on the turn shutting down action instead of helping your action you indeed got great value for your hand.

I really enjoyed reading your thorough thoughts about the players the hands and the action. I do think you may be over estimating the value of the 108 from a preflop perspective and I would at least consider the fact that you may be biased based on results. It is imperative to not let results impair your analysis in this game.

Play well and good luck!

Yes, you could have played this better.
HOWEVER, it is clear you are not really asking and this is just a veiled brag thread. Congratulations, you rolled the dice and lucked out. But don't let that convince you that your actions were solid poker. This hand is very much an aberration of the norm. Continue to play that way and you will find yourself on the losing end twice as much as not.

There is the interesting aspect here of the stats saying one thing (fold pre), and the group you are playing with suggesting you can do this.

Stats vs the game of Poker.

Would you play this vs a table of unknowns?

Fold pre, shove flop.

Nh.

dj11 said:

There is the interesting aspect here of the stats saying one thing (fold pre), and the group you are playing with suggesting you can do this.

Stats vs the game of Poker.

Would you play this vs a table of unknowns?

Click to expand...

Poker's a dynamic game, every time you sit at a table it's different than the last game when you have information available. Unless you always play the same people. Starting hands charts change depending on the other players. Sometimes you'd be playing way more hands from E/MP than you normally would, and raising/betting more hands that you normally wouldn't.

Played well

When it comes down to it Slasher knew he was beat b4 u showded your cards so I think you got the most out of the hand as had you went harder everyone could have folded.G

Utg opens and you're 20bb deep. Have to fold 8Ts preflop here.
As played and when they show weakness with a min bet and a min raise i'd show some strength and raise try to get it in or make them fold, if not set up a turn shove.
I'm bad in thinking about potsize etc in those formats, so maybe i'd just jam the flop depending on how big the pot is.

I don't believe in stats I play my hand and I play the players

Aalexandar said:

#Game No : 791462428
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 791462428 *****
$25/$50 Blinds No Limit Holdem - ***
Tournament #80415180 $0.01 - Table #5 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: DEDR514 ( $970 )
Seat 2: ivan2219 ( $770 )
Seat 3: pamijo1982 ( $1,245 )
Seat 4: IMASHARK99 ( $1,330 )
Seat 5: ferdinandosi ( $910 )
Seat 6: CanadianJag ( $970 )
Seat 7: Slasher1974 ( $910 )
Seat 9: aalexandar ( $1,000 )
Seat 10: Zhekafirsov ( $915 )
ferdinandosi posts small blind [$25]
CanadianJag posts big blind [$50]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to aalexandar [ 8d, Td ]
Slasher1974 raises [$100]
aalexandar calls [$100]
...With only 20 BBs and in EP, this is an easy fold. 8d10d does have good potential, but when a raise w/ only 20 BBs, you do not have the implied odds to hit a strong draw/hand.

[I couldn't find a chart for suited 1 gappers, so I used suited connectors. It might be a bit off, but it's close enough as playing 910s here should not be that different.]

The odds of flopping a/an:
-2 pair is 49:1
-trips is 73.6:1
-Flush is 118:1
-Straight is 75.3:1
-Boat is 1087:1
-OESD is 8.6:1
-FD is 8.1:1

I could go on with combo draws like FD + OESD or FD + GS or Pair + FD/OESD, but the point is, you don't have the implied odds to call for these draws.

Now, there might be an argument for having implied odds to hit an OESD or FD with ~8-8.5:1 odds as you can call a raise of $100 and can expect to make at least $800-$850 more off your opponent if your hand hits, but keep in mind that:

a) this is only your implied odds of hitting a draw.
b) if you hit your FD, you are drawing to the nut flush.
c) you're in EP and can easily face a 3bet from a player in later position, negating your implied odds.

Zhekafirsov calls [$100]
DEDR514 folds
ivan2219 calls [$100]
pamijo1982 calls [$100]
IMASHARK99 folds
ferdinandosi calls [$75]
CanadianJag calls [$50]
** Dealing flop ** [ 3s, 9d, 6d ]
ferdinandosi checks
CanadianJag bets [$50]
Slasher1974 raises [$100]
aalexandar raises [$400]
...Prior to your 3bet, there is $850 in the pot. Your raise pops it to $1250, giving players with other FDs bad odds to draw. It's good that you're thinking in this aspect [I read your reply].

However, the problem with your 3bet is that you only have $900 to begin with and you're leaving $500 behind. The problems with this are:

-you priced yourself in to call a 4bet
...You are never folding for 10 more BBs after investing 10BBs of your starting 20 BB stack. If only 1 player 4bets and it's folded to you, you're still getting the right price to call to hit your draw on the turn or river.

-you have no fold equity to bet on the turn if you miss your draw.
...ignoring the fact that is was 4bet, players who would've called your $400 raise on the flop with a draw are very likely to call your $500 shove on turn, even if they had missed, because they are getting a good price.
...players who called with a TP on the flop will likely call your turn shove if the turn card isn't a scare card.

So, it's very hard to get players to fold when you have no fold equity to what is essentially a much weaker bet on the turn.

The better options would be to just shove the flop with your draw as a semi-bluff as raising/calling a large raise commits you to the pot already, and as said above, you aren't folding after committing yourself. The pot is large compared to your stack already and with your FE, there is a chance you'll get J-to-K high flush draws to fold. Nut flush draws still might call your shove, though. You also might get TP hands to fold, but you gain max value if they do call and you hit. The same goes for 2 pairs and trips as they're never folding to your shove, but you do get max value if you hit and your hand holds.

You obviously don't have the best hand, but you have a very strong draw to a better hand against hands that are likely to call you, with the exception of the nut flush draw. So, the semi-bluff shove is your best option win by getting potentially better draw hands to fold, getting slightly better hands to fold [TPTK], or getting strong hands [over pairs, sets, 2 pairs] to call, but you have a chance of hitting your draw and gaining max value.

There also might be an argument for calling the flop raise of $100, then re-evaluating the turn with your hand, but I disagree with that as the only reason you called preflop with this hand was to either flop a monster hand or a good draw. And since you flopped that draw, you shouldn't be trying to find spots to fold your hand on a later street. It doesn't make sense. Especially if you're only 20 BBs deep. It's a situation of either folding the hand preflop or calling and playing aggressively if you flop a strong draw.

Also, if you just call the flop raise, there is still a chance that a player in late position will 3bet. And going back to what I said about not folding a strong draw in this situation, you are always calling that 3bet, pricing you in to call a 4bet or a bet on the turn. Since you're calling that potential 3bet 100% of the time, you're better off shoving it in as a semi-bluff.

Zhekafirsov calls [$400]
ivan2219 folds
pamijo1982 folds
ferdinandosi folds
CanadianJag folds
Slasher1974 raises [$600]
aalexandar raises [$500]
Zhekafirsov calls [$415]
Slasher1974 calls [$110]
** Dealing turn ** [ Kd ]
** Dealing river ** [ 7d ]
** Summary **
Slasher1974 shows [ Ks, 9s ]
aalexandar shows [ 8d, Td ]
Zhekafirsov shows [ 6h, Qh ]
aalexandar collected [ $3,180 ]
aalexandar collected [ $10 ]

Just wanted to post this hand and get some feedback on the way I played because I feel like i played well, but like there was something more I could do to keep more people in the pot for more value.. Other than that I may have wanted to humblebrag a bit because I think I played well, but could've gotten more. Still proud of it though.
....You didn't play it well and you're being result orient when you say you wanted to keep more players in the pot. With 6 other players in the hand and you not drawing to the nut hand, you want to win the pot then and there or at least thin out the field to give yourself a better chance at winning the pot at showdown if you hit.

I think it was extremely lucky that none of the other 6 players had anything remotely strong to call you with post flop, but don't be confused into thinking that a positive result is equal to positive decision making.

Click to expand...

Above.

I know you wrote a reply and I'll get to that later.

Also, I apologize for writing so much.