$3 NLHE MTT: AKo from UTG facing a strange squeeze of a good player

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uavissar

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Online 8 handed tourney. Blinds are 200/400/50
I have just over 21BB (8490)


I have :kh4::ad4: in UTG and open to 928.
I get a call from UTG + 1. Has 9bb (?)
HJ (43BB) calls
CO- the only player I have some history with (close to 300 hands). Profitable 23/14/15 with 7.8 3bet- 3 bets to 2456. He started the hand with 44BB.


The rest fold and action is back on me. Pot is 6240.
Hero?
 
8bod8

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What does CO think of you? (your stat's?)
What is strange about CO 3bet? if has mid or high pair, or AK, AQ, maybe broadway suited connectors?
I would call.
Post flop becomes complicated (potentially expensive) as you are oop.
 
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uavissar

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8bod8 said:
What does CO think of you? (your stat's?)
What is strange about CO 3bet? if has mid or high pair, or AK, AQ, maybe broadway suited connectors?
I would call.
Post flop becomes complicated (potentially expensive) as you are oop.
Click to expand...

I don't have the stats for the session, but as we have history I guess something like 17/12.
I assume you mean call and call the shove from UTG+1?
 
MaSSive_1

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Fist pump shove? What else with 21bb and AK..
 
DougPkrMonsta

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You've got a good re-shove stack, a good spot to shove, and the perfect hand for it.

I don't think there is a hand UTG+1 should be flat-calling off their stack size and the CO's 3-bet to this size just isn't a good play with any hand.

Yeah maybe you're up against kings or aces here some decent amount of the time given the strange raise size (or at least you should be), but that's all you're afraid of in this spot.

Good luck to you! :D
 
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kolenval

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Good hand for push in CO and double up against 99-JJ it is jokerstars man
 
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QA77

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Easy shove in my opinion. Calling here with that many chips would be bad.
 
Bozovicdj

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kolenval said:
Good hand for push in CO and double up against 99-JJ it is jokerstars man
Click to expand...

Y this is definitely not the way to think about it :D but I do recommend a shove, in general I don't like going all in with AK, if you are against a small pocket pair you need to catch up to win the hand. But this instance, where you need to be top 3 (i guess) to win money, you need some head start to get there, and AK gives you an opportunity to do just that :)
 
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7drewski

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You are off suit and out of position. Your outs are dimminished, your callers with a shove are going to be higher pairs and AK suited AA KK KQ suited this you behind, in my opinion, wait till you are in position, sticking to your range. Or shove and take a chance, depends on your comfort level.
 
TheBigFinn

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It is either a fold or a shove. Calling will leave OOP for the rest of the hand with 1/3 of your stack already in. 70% of the time you won't flop either an A or K and will have to fold to a bet. Even if you hit, are fist pumping happy getting it in?

Pushing with 20 BB depends, IMHO, on how close you are to the bubble. If you push and get called you are likely behind. and will hit a pair by the river only half of the time. 19 BBs past the bubble is still playable. Either far from or after the bubble it is a clear push, again IMHO. You'll have more fold equity.


Folding is weak, but not horrible.It is a $3 tourny and if you consider yourself a better player than the rest of the field you could wait for a better time to gamble.
 
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Edvin55555

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It's a pretty small chance that he has AA because you are blocking this hand. Against all other hands shove is still profitable.
 
MaSSive_1

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TheBigFinn said:
It is either a fold or a shove. Calling will leave OOP for the rest of the hand with 1/3 of your stack already in. 70% of the time you won't flop either an A or K and will have to fold to a bet. Even if you hit, are fist pumping happy getting it in?

Pushing with 20 BB depends, IMHO, on how close you are to the bubble. If you push and get called you are likely behind. and will hit a pair by the river only half of the time. 19 BBs past the bubble is still playable. Either far from or after the bubble it is a clear push, again IMHO. You'll have more fold equity.


Folding is weak, but not horrible.It is a $3 tourny and if you consider yourself a better player than the rest of the field you could wait for a better time to gamble.
Click to expand...

Actually anything except shoving is beyond horrible, with the dead money in the pot we have the required equity by miles of what is necessary, so its just absurd to do anything but shoving.
 
1dkp0k3r

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All in. If short stack is trapping, oh well, you will decent equity against mot of his range and you still have chips if you lose. HJ is not trapping here, he would raise to isolate both you and the short stack, If the CO is as good a player as you think of him, then this is a great squeeze spot for him for all the same reasons I listed above. If you want to win tournaments, you are not looking to fold AK with 21 BB
 
TheBigFinn

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MaSSive_1 said:
Actually anything except shoving is beyond horrible, with the dead money in the pot we have the required equity by miles of what is necessary, so its just absurd to do anything but shoving.
Click to expand...

Let's look at it. Hero has 7,562. Villain has Hero covered and she will need to call 5,106 to win 10,418 when Hero shoves. It is very unlikely Villain will fold to a shove, IMHO, so let's see what that leaves us. Hero is risking 7,562 and his tournament life to win 6,240+5,106=11,346.

Given that Villain must know the numbers just how good is her hand? How about 7% range, 77+, AQ+ ? Against that range Hero is a 48/52 dog. How about a 4% range, 99+, AK? Now Hero is a 41/59 dog. Call it a coin flip.

As I wrote originally, if Hero thinks he is 10% better than the field with 19 BB he can see another 20 to 30 hands before he gets desperate he can fold. Its weak, but clearly not Horrible.
 
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MaSSive_1

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TheBigFinn said:
Let's look at it. Hero has 7,562. Villain has Hero covered and she will need to call 5,106 to win 10,418 when Hero shoves. It is very unlikely Villain will fold to a shove, IMHO, so let's see what that leaves us. Hero is risking 7,562 and his tournament life to win 6,240+5,106=11,346.

Given that Villain must know the numbers just how good is her hand? How about 7% range, 77+, AQ+ ? Against that range Hero is a 48/52 dog. How about a 4% range, 99+, AK? Now Hero is a 41/59 dog. Call it a coin flip.

As I wrote originally, if Hero thinks he is 10% better than the field with 19 BB he can see another 20 to 30 hands before he gets desperate he can fold. Its weak, but clearly not Horrible.
Click to expand...

First of all, the term 'tournament life' you basicly shouldn't have it in your poker vocabulary if you want to be winning tournaments constantly. You should basicly look at each spot as +Cev or - Cev that is until ICM comes to play. Vs the ranges you mentioned we are still earning chips by shoving, do you agree?


Why would we choose folding then? Im trying to understand the reason to choose negative Cev play here.


Its not about if we are flipping or not vs his range, its about if our shove is making money which is clearly is, that is all there is to it.


You can't avoids flips if you wanna win tournaments.
 
liuouhgkres

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Good rule for tournament poker, if you have under 30 blinds, never ever fold AK. In this spot it's quick jam.
 
TheBigFinn

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MaSSive_1 said:
Actually anything except shoving is beyond horrible, with the dead money in the pot we have the required equity by miles of what is necessary, so its just absurd to do anything but shoving.
Click to expand...

MaSSive_1 said:
First of all, the term 'tournament life' you basicly shouldn't have it in your poker vocabulary if you want to be winning tournaments constantly. You should basicly look at each spot as +Cev or - Cev that is until ICM comes to play. Vs the ranges you mentioned we are still earning chips by shoving, do you agree?


Why would we choose folding then? Im trying to understand the reason to choose negative Cev play here.


Its not about if we are flipping or not vs his range, its about if our shove is making money which is clearly is, that is all there is to it.


You can't avoids flips if you wanna win tournaments.
Click to expand...

I think you miss my point. If you think you are a better player than the remaining field, folding isn't horrible. I agree you are give up a some EV in the best case, but could well be flipping in the worst case. The question is, "Is your advantage over the field in a $3 tourny bigger than the EV you are giving up?"


I agree you have to win a few flips to win a tourny, but there will likely be better times to shove.


All of that said I am mainly a cash player and if this was a cash game I'd be shoving. In a cash game Villain's 3-bet range is wider and you might actually have some fold equity.
 
TheBigFinn

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MaSSive_1 said:
First of all, the term 'tournament life' you basicly shouldn't have it in your poker vocabulary if you want to be winning tournaments constantly. You should basicly look at each spot as +Cev or - Cev that is until ICM comes to play. Vs the ranges you mentioned we are still earning chips by shoving, do you agree?

Why would we choose folding then? Im trying to understand the reason to choose negative Cev play here.

Its not about if we are flipping or not vs his range, its about if our shove is making money which is clearly is, that is all there is to it.

You can't avoids flips if you wanna win tournaments.
Click to expand...

I think you miss my point. If you think you are a better player than the remaining field, folding isn't HORRIBLE. Look at the numbers and the qualifiers in my original post.


I agree you are give up a some EV in the best case, but you are flipping in the worst case.
The question is, "Is your advantage over the field in a $3 tourny bigger than the EV you are giving up?"


I agree you have to win a few flips to win a tourny, but you don't have to call every flip.


If you want to maximize your EV a good field you should open shove with AK and 21 BBs.


All of that said I am mainly a cash player and if this was a cash game I'd be shoving. In a cash game Villain's 3-bet range is wider and you might actually have some fold equity.
 
MaSSive_1

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TheBigFinn said:
I think you miss my point. If you think you are a better player than the remaining field, folding isn't HORRIBLE. Look at the numbers and the qualifiers in my original post.


I agree you are give up a some EV in the best case, but you are flipping in the worst case.
The question is, "Is your advantage over the field in a $3 tourny bigger than the EV you are giving up?"


I agree you have to win a few flips to win a tourny, but you don't have to call every flip.


If you want to maximize your EV a good field you should open shove with AK and 21 BBs.


All of that said I am mainly a cash player and if this was a cash game I'd be shoving. In a cash game Villain's 3-bet range is wider and you might actually have some fold equity.
Click to expand...

Even if I miles better you can never give so much ev with 21bb. Its not last two tables or something.


You dont get to realize your edge with 21bb no matter how big it is unless it is final table.


If i have big edge on field I will give marginal spots like calling sb shove of 12bb with T9s in bb, i will not shove wide on bb from sb but limp a lot etc. But to give up AK with 21bb.. I mean ok u give it up and you still have to win all your 70%/60%/50%/80% all ins pf.
 
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uavissar

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To finish the hand-I 4bet to 5000 something. Why? Obviously I'm going all in here and I wanted to give good enough odds for the 3bettor to call me even with a marginal hand- for example- suppose he was 3betting with 109s. I wanted to avoid the unlikely scenario of him managing a fold somehow.
UTG+1 calls.
HJ folds.
CO calls.
Flop doesn't really matter as I shove. CO calls.
My AK against QQ of UTG+1 and AQ of CO.
I hit a flush on the river :)
 
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Edvin55555

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uavissar said:
To finish the hand-I 4bet to 5000 something. Why? Obviously I'm going all in here and I wanted to give good enough odds for the 3bettor to call me even with a marginal hand- for example- suppose he was 3betting with 109s. I wanted to avoid the unlikely scenario of him managing a fold somehow.
UTG+1 calls.
HJ folds.
CO calls.
Flop doesn't really matter as I shove. CO calls.
My AK against QQ of UTG+1 and AQ of CO.
I hit a flush on the river :)
Click to expand...

The best skill is to hit on the river in spots like this :)
 
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MaSSive_1 said:
Fist pump shove? What else with 21bb and AK..
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. We are smacking villans range. Besides we are oop and may need all five community card to win. If we call, it may be hard to get paid if we hit the flop and if we miss villain may take the pot down with 10 high.


When you 4 bet small, I think it`s the worst you can do. You said you wanted to keep villain in with 10 9s. Why do you want that? He got over 40% equity with 9 10s vs your AK, and with the small raise you let him see a flop cheap. If he hit, he continues (and bust you), if he don`t he can get away easy. You may also loose equity vs Aj kinda hands.


As already mention I think you should shove. If everybody fold (I think is the best that can happen), you would ad about 4K to your stack with no risk at all. That is almost 50% of your starting stack, which is huge.


Just my humble opinion.


Sprockett
 
MaSSive_1

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Sprockett said:
This is what I was thinking. We are smacking villans range. Besides we are oop and may need all five community card to win. If we call, it may be hard to get paid if we hit the flop and if we miss villain may take the pot down with 10 high.


When you 4 bet small, I think it`s the worst you can do. You said you wanted to keep villain in with 10 9s. Why do you want that? He got over 40% equity with 9 10s vs your AK, and with the small raise you let him see a flop cheap. If he hit, he continues (and bust you), if he don`t he can get away easy. You may also loose equity vs Aj kinda hands.


As already mention I think you should shove. If everybody fold (I think is the best that can happen), you would ad about 4K to your stack with no risk at all. That is almost 50% of your starting stack, which is huge.


Just my humble opinion.


Sprockett
Click to expand...

Humble and correct :cool:
 
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