$50 NLHE6-max: Thin turn c-r vs. pro

I was taking my shot at a pro, Chris Klecz on FTP. She was sitting on about 10 tables and I watched her for a bit. She was uber aggressive and generally 3-betting a ton and always 4-betting/never folding to 3-bets.

This is our first orbit together; I limped here because I felt she is 3-betting me often and I'm not sure I want to turn AQo into a bluff here and fold to a 4-bet although I'm way ahead of her 3-betting range. Of course limp-rr is arguably turning it into a bluff but I wanted to have some credibility on raggy boards.

As she doesn't 4-bet I feel her continuing range is really wide. I flop top-top with the K on board. I feel her flatting range on this flop is going to be all Ax and Kx, 66 and gutshots.

I suppose turn check-raise is seriously overrepping my already overrepped hand but I felt if I checked she'd bet her entire range on the turn (putting me on QQ-JJ) and would be hard-pressed to fold any pair getting such good odds when I could have some combo draws as well. I don't think she'll allow me to pot control OOP but I'm not sure I'm getting 3 streets of value here against anything Im good against except AJ.

thoughts?

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($17.95)
CO ($56)
BTN ($57.95)
Hero (SB) ($50)
BB ($51.70)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is SB
4 folds, Hero calls $0.25, BB raises to $2, Hero raises to $5.50, BB calls $3.50

Flop: ($11, 2 players)
Hero bets $4.50, BB calls $4.50

Turn: ($20, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $12.60, Hero goes all-in $40, BB calls $27.40

You say she is aggro and has a wide range here so why are we c/r?
Isn't this just folding out every thing we beat and getting called by better?

Cant we just c/c turn and river? Its not like there are any real draws we have to worry about and on the river she is probably gonna bet the top and bottom of her range and probably check back some of the stuff we beat but would have been hard to get more value from.

My range is basically destroying hers here.

Check-raise is so polarizing in this spot because after the limp-rr, weak flop bet and turn check, my hand has to look a lot like an underpair (QQ-JJ).

So if you look at it mathematically, I'm representing a nut range (AA/KK/AK, which she can never have) of which there are very few combos, a made hand turned into a bluff or some sort of semi-bluff like KQcc, QJ/JTcc.

So I think if you put the idea in villain's head that any Ax/Kx is good they will commit more of their stack than if we go straight-forward 3 streets of value.

Bump, would like more feedback on this. I also tried writing to Christiane and hoping she will give me some insight into her thought process on the hand.

lol @ writing to her asking for advice on how to beat her when you play her again...that should work!

Anyway, 50NL is out of my league so far but I will still like to throw in a couple of ideas, if you don't mind.

First, you say she always 4bets/never folds to 3bets. Does she 4bet more than she calls? If she does her flatting range may be stronger. Although she does have position on you.

The second point, if I understand your OP correctly you're an unknown to her. It makes little sense to me that she goes super aggro on an unknown that is probably a fish to her, seeing how you completed the SB.

With that, I don't think she has air here often enough, maybe hands like AJ, AT (most likely suited) that you beat, but alot of stuff that beats you. Probably best to flat call turn and river, as others suggested

If she's 3betting so wide pre, raise pre and let her give you extra value when she 4 bets you. It also helps you play OOP.

I quite like c/c flop then leading turn, it makes your range look super weak.

does it really look weak or does it look how a fish would slowplay teh KK?

i think a smallish cbet/turn check looks weaker.

I think you have to assign yourself a preflop backraising range to assign a flop/turn range - what do you think she puts you on when you do that?

Backraising to me suggests a mid PP, something like JJ, and c/c flop then leading turn suggests a reverse float which makes no sense based on your line preflop.

Regardless, if you are going to try and look weak, c/r'ing looks strong but not strong enough to make her fold out any of the hands that are beating you?

alright I mean I guess I shouldn't influence the discussion too much but honestly do you think we are ever behind in this spot? She was 4-betting so aggressively and esp. in a BvB situation, I think she is never flatting a hand that beats us on this board (as combinatorically unlikely as it is anyway).

I think my limp-rr represents TT+/AK/some air, my range has a ton more nut hands in it than hers.

I'm saying that if we are ahead c/r'ing here makes no sense IMO. If we lead turn and she raises then she's in for her stack, and if she doesn't raise then you've got a PSB left for the river which she'll probably find herself committed to call.

There aren't really any river scare cards, so why let her fold out stuff you beat by a nearly 4x c/r?

Well the thing I was trying to do here is manipulate what my range looks like to an obviously superior/thinking player.

A. I limp, which looks weak, for reasons stated above. My range looks like any random hand some fish wants to see a flop with.
B. Then I l-rr, representing a monster.
C. I bet weak on the flop, which probably indicates weakness.
D. I check the turn, which looks seriously weak.
E. I check-raise, which represents what? A nutted range or some sort of combo draw (KcQc, QcJc type stuff) or random spazz with QQ.

I think that if you, at any point in the hand, put the idea in villain's head that their marginal calling hand on the flop is definitely ahead, they will sometimes level themselves into making nonstandard calls. And this is BvB where play is often less straightforward anyway.

So this is basically a spot where my range is theoretically polarized. If she has Ax or Kx she obviously has blockers to my nut range and being a pro on an NL50 table she probably has a ton of people playing back at her with all sorts of sh1t.

baudib1 said:

Well the thing I was trying to do here is manipulate what my range looks like to an obviously superior/thinking player.

A. I limp, which looks weak, for reasons stated above. My range looks like any random hand some fish wants to see a flop with.
B. Then I l-rr, representing a monster.
C. I bet weak on the flop, which probably indicates weakness.
D. I check the turn, which looks seriously weak.
E. I check-raise, which represents what? A nutted range or some sort of combo draw (KcQc, QcJc type stuff) or random spazz with QQ.

I think that if you, at any point in the hand, put the idea in villain's head that their marginal calling hand on the flop is definitely ahead, they will sometimes level themselves into making nonstandard calls. And this is BvB where play is often less straightforward anyway.

So this is basically a spot where my range is theoretically polarized. If she has Ax or Kx she obviously has blockers to my nut range and being a pro on an NL50 table she probably has a ton of people playing back at her with all sorts of sh1t.

Click to expand...

Fair points Thinking about it, I think you'll probably get looked up by AJ/AT and obv Kxcc.

Realised being out of position means she'll check behind with lots of AJ/AT stuff and you'll lose a lot of value which she might otherwise call after reading what you wrote above.

Still don't like limping pre though, losing so much value