$50 NLHE 6-max: 3 bet semi bluffing or not with a flush draw

Hujiko

Hujiko

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PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

BTN: 130.9 BB (VPIP: 27.72, PFR: 21.78, 3Bet Preflop: 10.87, hands: 103)
SB: 106.64 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
BB: 201.04 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
UTG: 376.96 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 2)
Hero (MP): 111.5 BB
CO: 109.42 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♣ 9♣

fold, Hero raises to 2.42 BB, fold, fold, SB calls 1.92 BB, BB calls 1.42 BB

Flop: (7.26 BB, 3 players) 7♣ 7♥ 2♣
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 4.5 BB, SB calls 4.5 BB, fold

The flop gave me a flush draw so I lead out don't see anything wrong in that. Only the SB calls and the BB folds.

Turn: (16.26 BB, 2 players) K♦
SB bets 5 BB, Hero raises to 18 BB, SB raises to 54 BB, Hero calls 36 BB

The turn gets interesting. Kd comes that is a scare card to the board. SB leads out for 5 BB which is a small bet. The following runs in my head is he scared and wants to see the next card for a low price with a flush draw or a weak pair? I decide that that is prob the case and make a decent raise to 18 BB.
Q1: Is this wrong?
He re-raises to 54 BB I think ouch he has me beat in the hand that K improved his hand. I decide to make the call as I still get to see the river and on a club I might get his remaining stack.
Q2: Is this wrong thinking do I get the (implied) odds?

River: (124.26 BB, 2 players) 4♣
SB bets 45.72 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 45.72 BB

SB shows A♥ 7♦ (Three of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 53%, Flop 74%, Turn 84%)
Hero shows J♣ 9♣ (Flush, Jack High)
(Pre 47%, Flop 26%, Turn 16%)
Hero wins 211.7 BB

Aftermath:
Phew that was lucky.
Q1:
What hands will fold to my re-raise on the turn only pure bluffs and he did already make a call on the flop and makes a small bluff? Not likely, but still pairs 88-QQ could make a fold here and his small flush draws. That's a lot of possible hands so yes the semi-bluff can work but is it enough and better then just calling with the flush draw in position and control. I doubt it.
Q2:
Even when I get all his money in (and am not beat by e.g. better flush) I don't get the odds to draw to the flush. So it was a clear fold.
 
John A

John A

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Turn raise is fine. Once he re-raises though, you need to fold. Yes, you likely will get the rest of this stack, but you also have reverse implied odds. Even if you had the nut draw, you effectively need to call 36 to win 139 which isn't even quite 4:1.
 
John A

John A

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Never mind just realized you answered your own questions at the bottom I guess. I guess it was just an example hand.
 
TenJack

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Hmm seems like you already knew the answers to your own questions?

Turn re-raise seems like a clear fold to me (and i think you said that as well), we have no hand, bad odds, and the board is paired. Our draw isn't even to the NF. Very Rarely is he going to be re-raising you on a bluff here.
 
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C

cs_rlewis

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Yeah I think calling turn instead of reraising is definitely the best play long term
 
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Alexchen

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Hujiko said:
PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

BTN: 130.9 BB (VPIP: 27.72, PFR: 21.78, 3Bet Preflop: 10.87, Hands: 103)
SB: 106.64 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
BB: 201.04 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
UTG: 376.96 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 2)
Hero (MP): 111.5 BB
CO: 109.42 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♣ 9♣

fold, Hero raises to 2.42 BB, fold, fold, SB calls 1.92 BB, BB calls 1.42 BB

Flop: (7.26 BB, 3 players) 7♣ 7♥ 2♣
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 4.5 BB, SB calls 4.5 BB, fold

The flop gave me a flush draw so I lead out don't see anything wrong in that. Only the SB calls and the BB folds.

Turn: (16.26 BB, 2 players) K♦
SB bets 5 BB, Hero raises to 18 BB, SB raises to 54 BB, Hero calls 36 BB

The turn gets interesting. Kd comes that is a scare card to the board. SB leads out for 5 BB which is a small bet. The following runs in my head is he scared and wants to see the next card for a low price with a flush draw or a weak pair? I decide that that is prob the case and make a decent raise to 18 BB.
Q1: Is this wrong?
He re-raises to 54 BB I think ouch he has me beat in the hand that K improved his hand. I decide to make the call as I still get to see the river and on a club I might get his remaining stack.
Q2: Is this wrong thinking do I get the (implied) odds?

River: (124.26 BB, 2 players) 4♣
SB bets 45.72 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 45.72 BB

SB shows A♥ 7♦ (Three of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 53%, Flop 74%, Turn 84%)
Hero shows J♣ 9♣ (Flush, Jack High)
(Pre 47%, Flop 26%, Turn 16%)
Hero wins 211.7 BB

Aftermath:
Phew that was lucky.
Q1:
What hands will fold to my re-raise on the turn only pure bluffs and he did already make a call on the flop and makes a small bluff? Not likely, but still pairs 88-QQ could make a fold here and his small flush draws. That's a lot of possible hands so yes the semi-bluff can work but is it enough and better then just calling with the flush draw in position and control. I doubt it.
Q2:
Even when I get all his money in (and am not beat by e.g. better flush) I don't get the odds to draw to the flush. So it was a clear fold.
Click to expand...
Pre / Flop: nothing happens.

Turn: when he leads out to bet 1/3 to the pot, what kind of hand range will he have? First for this bet size he probably would not bluff too often here since this price is so good for you to call. So he could mostly have a lot of 7x hands or some Kx hand (which Kx hand usually should be a check call hand on the turn). Since his range becomes narrow and strong now I think you should just call the turn and realize your equity? Just like this case, actually I think the SB make the right play. He made the pot as big as he can and indeed he leads on the turn. When you raise the turn and get re-raise, maybe concede the pot is better? Even he is bluffing he should bluff with some AcXc and you will face a higher flush. That's just my opinion.

River: Nothing to say.

Welcome to tell your opinion about my comments.
 
Sil3ntness

Sil3ntness

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I believe folding after the SB 3Bs you on the turn is the best option. Like you said you are not getting good odds and if he/she happened to have Ax of clubs you would be even in worse condition.

Hand feels a bit loose preflop. Probably the bottom of some people's hijack raising range, but post flop a C-bet against two people that tend to fold a lot could be good.
 
Aces2w1n

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he calls our cb on flop. he has to have minimum pp surely and thinks we could be bluffing it a lot.

turn he raises ... k is in our range so it suggests to me hes not worried about it... since we have the draw we can take away some of his drawing combos. also AT-AKs a lot should raise preflop


fold turn we got our answer when we applied pressure to see where we were at
 
TheBigFinn

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I am good with the play till the turn. When Villain leads out small, only two things are happening. 1. Villain, as Hero thought, wants to buy a cheap turn with a draw, or 2. As it turned out, he is strong and trying to to get hero to pay for his draw.

If I were Hero with a low flush draw, I'd want to see a cheap turn too, and call the cheap draw. As played, when Villain comes back over the flop, he is either very strong or he has nothing, and Hero can't beat Q high. To me it is a clear fold on the turn.
 
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UkoChebuko

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I will do the same (18bb raise). But I will fold versus this size 3bet with this hand. I don't have a calling range here. Shove 4bet with Ax flush draw, Kx, AA+. I expect more often flush draw here (3bet-call) and bluffs. But if you call, on the river will be ugly. With this SPR.
 
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777alex777

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call on the turn is bad, because the chances of the Bank to collect not even NATs flash you below 25%, and you are required to invest 29% of the final Bank
 
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