$5 NLHE 6-max: Flopped middle set to a flush board

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($5.85)
MP ($6.56)
CO ($3.77)
Button ($1.87)
Hero (SB) ($4.40)
BB ($5)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J , J
1 fold, MP bets $0.15, CO raises to $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.23, 1 fold, MP calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.80) K , 7 , J (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Hero ??

I usually don't flat a 3 bet OOP, but I was involved in another hand at another table, and saw JJ in the blinds. Didn't realize it was a 3 bet hand.

What do you think about the flop? I will post what I did, but want to see what others think.

I think flatting here is fine cause the 3 bet isnt even a min 3 bet and Ill call these all day long with a fairly wide range for the implied odds. At 5nl I find that these min 3 bets are more often then not a monster and if you flop good you stand to win a big pot for a little investment.

I would raise the flop 100% of the time. Flopping a flush is unlikely so if they did then its just a cooler.

Any any raise you make commits you to the pot so I might even shove here. You could make it something like 2.50 but then understand that you cant fold anymore if you get called. If called shove any non club card.

shovaments

I usually don't flat a 3 bet OOP, but I was involved in another hand at another table, and saw JJ in the blinds. Didn't realize it was a 3 bet hand.

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if you didnt know it was a 3bet hand, why would you still flat JJ OOP?

Raise flop obv.

arr innn.

Would not flat this pre, and would not flat this post.

Definatly 3bet on flop, and I would probably 3bet preflop.

bgomez89 said:

if you didnt know it was a 3bet hand, why would you still flat JJ OOP?

Raise flop obv.

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I thought it was a raise, and a call before me. Normally I would 3 bet JJ OOP and hope not to see a flop, but not against 2 players. Seems like most of the time, I get 1 fold, and 1 call, then an overcard comes to my jacks and I have a tough decision.

Anyways, on the hand, I shoved and got called by 1 player. He did flop the nut flush with A/rag suited. Luckily, I turned a king for the full house. My reasoning for shoving was to not give someone odds to draw to the flush if they had 1 club. I figured if they hit the .84% chance of flopping the flush, I still had outs to take it down, and if I got 2 folds, I was fine with that. Seemed to me like good reasoning, but felt kinda like a fish at the same time. Seems like an ok move from the response in this thread. Thanks everybody.

billdogg said:

I thought it was a raise, and a call before me. Normally I would 3 bet JJ OOP and hope not to see a flop, but not against 2 players. Seems like most of the time, I get 1 fold, and 1 call, then an overcard comes to my jacks and I have a tough decision.

Anyways, on the hand, I shoved and got called by 1 player. He did flop the nut flush with A/rag suited. Luckily, I turned a king for the full house. My reasoning for shoving was to not give someone odds to draw to the flush if they had 1 club. I figured if they hit the .84% chance of flopping the flush, I still had outs to take it down, and if I got 2 folds, I was fine with that. Seemed to me like good reasoning, but felt kinda like a fish at the same time. Seems like an ok move from the response in this thread. Thanks everybody.

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You need to rethink your logic here. The goal of poker is to make your opponent make mistakes not make them fold. So let's say your opponent here has AcKh, you shouldn't want him to fold if you shove. You should be praying for a call, because that's how you make money. If he folds a hand like AK with the Ace of clubs he's made the right play (he would have about 30% equity but would need ~38% to call profitably) and you haven't won as much money on average as you do when he calls.

BTW not suggesting anyone would/should fold AcKh here but I just used it to illustrate the point that if we shove we want calls with worse, not folds.

WVHillbilly said:

You need to rethink your logic here. The goal of poker is to make your opponent make mistakes not make them fold. So let's say your opponent here has AcKh, you shouldn't want him to fold if you shove. You should be praying for a call, because that's how you make money. If he folds a hand like AK with the Ace of clubs he's made the right play (he would have about 30% equity but would need ~38% to call profitably) and you haven't won as much money on average as you do when he calls.

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Who cares if you get a call, that's what you want. If you're not almost always 3betting a hand like JJ just because there's a raise and a couple of callers, you have a serious leak.