$4 NLHE Full Ring: Limp UTG... it's a trap!?

Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 191 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 5)
Hero (CO): 172.25 BB
BTN: 65.5 BB (VPIP: 36.84, PFR: 5.26, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
SB: 86 BB (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 4.55, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 44)
BB: 141 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 5)
UTG: 222.75 BB (VPIP: 27.85, PFR: 11.42, 3Bet Preflop: 3.61, Hands: 221)
UTG+1: 20.25 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
MP: 99 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, Hero posts penalty blind 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 3 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 3 BB, UTG raises to 8.75 BB, fold

UTG isn't the most solid player ever, but he is multi tabling and he always seems to be up in money (not necessarily a winning player I know)

I've been playing cash games for about a week now and I've seen him almost every session.

I wish I took notes, because I'm trying to remember what kind of a player he is... I was almost dead sure he had AK+ here, and perhaps that made me remember him as a sort of trapping player... allowing opponents to cbet and bluff too often is a good way to make some pennies, so it makes sense.

In any event, I bet on the smaller side to get value of his actual limping hands... flush draws, maybe those gutshot/pair hands, etc.

When he raises, there isn't much that makes sense other than AK, KK, or AA. (Most likely AK here...), and even if it was a legit "limp," it could be QJ.

I did notice this preflop, and I was planning to fold if he 3bet at all.

Lol what is with that flop bet? And another thing. Why don't you respect the rule of 4BB+ 1 per limper? It could save you a lot of trouble.

And another thing. You assume too much for 4NL. People will play mostly face up. Specially that SLP type of guy. He plays his cards and wants to see flops cheap. They are rarely trapping. If he has 2 pairs or straight there he will reraise you no matter what you bet on the flop. If he does not you can get value from draws there.

Your flop bet is just too small actually... But folding here is quite correct as there hardly exists any worse hand can check raise you here. And AKT is not a good flop to check raise bluff as you are the open raiser and this flop match your range quite well.

I think folding or calling is good here.

You can call here and see what is up on the turn and then evaluate from there.

swingro said:

Lol what is with that flop bet? And another thing. Why don't you respect the rule of 4BB+ 1 per limper? It could save you a lot of trouble.

And another thing. You assume too much for 4NL. People will play mostly face up. Specially that SLP type of guy. He plays his cards and wants to see flops cheap. They are rarely trapping. If he has 2 pairs or straight there he will reraise you no matter what you bet on the flop. If he does not you can get value from draws there.

Click to expand...

Thanks again for the feedback swingro!

Oh, I usually do 3 BB + 1 for the limpers, and +1 BB for being OOP, but that's just me.

Oh, ok SLP means slow playing, got it.

I do hope I'm not over thinking things; I do try to put as much though as I can into my play though in order to improve.

I was thinking also that could make a move like this since they think they are ahead (incorrect to think so).

But you're saying I shouldn't give my opponents that much credit at 4nl? I've seen a lot of ccers at the tables, though! If someone has been winning in the time that I have been with them, I'd give them some credit.

And then, can one of y'all explain the flop bet thing to me? Why bigger? What would I be looking to do? get a fold? get value out of a worse ace? out of a flush draw?

I think you explained it somewhat swingro... so the logic is fold to a raise? I agree, not many hands I beat would raise there.

I need the very basics here.

Thanks for the feedback everybody... maybe I'll give the ol 4 BB + raise strat a go, however. seems like a good strat at the lower limits.

I don't like betting that flop. I don't think there is a lot in his range that calls that we beat and he can have lots of pair + draw or just naked draw type hands that he might raise and get us to fold the best hand. It's really a hand I'd want to try to get to SD for 2 postflop bets. I'd expect him to fire 100% of his range on any turn which we call and then we can make the decision to call or fold if he bets again on the river.

Why not 4 bet villian on the flop? I may be wrong but putting a limper on AK is pretty specific. Even then you still have a stronger draw to a straight than villain who needs to hit both the turn and the river plus if villain calls and any spade hits you can rep a flush.

Villain is pretty loose passive so potentally they could have Axs, K10+,Q9+,J10 and pairs.

I'm just a fish but I'd have a really hard time letting go of AQ with out a really specific read. Especially on a board like that.

teh_colonel_saigon said:

Thanks again for the feedback swingro!
Oh, ok SLP means slow playing, got it.
But you're saying I shouldn't give my opponents that much credit at 4nl?
.

Click to expand...

SLP = semi loose passive. Not a complete fish.
I do not think at 4 NL there are many lvl 2 thinkers. 99% are playing their cards. A guy with statslike that i am 100% is not the case of a lvl 2 thinker. He is raising only strong hands, limp/calls with the rest of his range and then play calling station depending on how the board hit him.
Why the bigger bet? You said you want to get value but you give him good odds to call if he has a draw. I do not agree with WVHillbilly here. It is amasing how a lot of ppl at this lvl call here with a gutshot or a hand type like QJ, KQ because in their mind the board looks nice. They do not see the outs but the smiling faces of the cards. They will definitely call at least one street. If he reraises you on any of the streets than you can be sure you are way behind.

K thanks for the clarification. I think there are some players who are slightly better than that in the us, but you're right... I do have a bad habit of folding too much/playing too weak.

WVH, I never considered checking back on the flop, but I'm not sure it is advisable. There are a lot of draws that he could have, and that was the reason behind my smaller bet (although I'm still not giving him good enough odds to continue).

But you do have a point, now that I think about it. Against most players at this level, it wouldn't be too good of a play. But checking behind flop and calling a turn bet would keep in some of his ax or kq/kj/q10/j10 hands, so we could call with some confidence. I think I just get into the mode of betting any top pair for value without putting too much thought into my opponents possible weaker holdings.

sneakyfeet hmm I'm not too sure about 4 betting. 4-bet flop only ensures we are beat if he calls. If he is raising with one of those "f-u-colonel" draws, he would fold once we show considerable strength. If he has us beat he'd probably raise all in, or 5 bet to whatever would be appropriate. Just my thoughts, but let me know if you think different... I'm a pretty poor player myself!