$2 NLHE Full Ring: Value Analysis

For the following hand I was in the SB; i completed (limped) in, w/ 66; normally I know its a fold, especially as of late I KNOW ITS A FOLD.. . but just take a look at the actaul hand.. .for this level (2nl) after the flop I probably should have tried to extract more value? Or what are the other thoughts?

Everleaf - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
BTN: $0.18
Hero (SB): $1.81
BB: $2.00
UTG: $1.77
UTG+1: $0.98
MP: $0.90
MP+1: $6.29
CO: $2.45
Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has 6:diamond: 6:heart:
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 calls $0.02, MP calls $0.02, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.01, BB checks
Flop: ($0.12, 6 players) 2:diamond: 6:spade: 8:heart:
Hero bets $0.04, fold, UTG calls $0.04, UTG+1 calls $0.04, MP raises to $0.08, fold, Hero calls $0.04, UTG calls $0.04, fold
Turn: ($0.40, 3 players) 2:heart:
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, fold
River: ($0.52, 2 players) 8:spade:
Hero bets $0.52, fold
Hero wins $0.50

I think completing there is fine with 4 callers since no one is folding if you raise and playing 66 first to act post-flop is generally going to suck.

Postflop though, bigger bets. I'd say leading for .10 and NEVER just call that min raise on the flop. 3bet that shit all day long. Also lead the turn. Having failed to do that at least raise that little shit bet.

It's almost like you played the hand to win the absolute minimum after you hit your set.

With 6 players in I'm leading and probably for pot, as played 3-bet to like 20 cents probably.

never folding pre in a limped pot.

Ya, I pot this flop too.

Even though board is super dry at 2nl we will still get calls from over cards and any pocket pairs or anyone who paired the board and of course A high make calls here too. A pot sized bet will not make them fold any of that except maybe A high sometimes.

Limping along with 66 seems ok in this spot although we will rarely win a big pot when we do hit unless someone really want to spew. Thats a pretty gross river card though. I dont know if I bet pot there on the river.

ok ya i agree w/ the feedback which imho is very good.

Ya it was a "sh*t" bet there on the flop w/ 4c. . . .every1 keeps telling me at this bottem (2nl) level to just push harder because they aren't gonna fold anyway. . . .if they do o well at least i tried to extract better value, and increase . .

At ANY level where 5 people limp preflop, you can pot/pot/shove hands like this and get called all day long. Just bet strong for value because the number one mistake micro stakes players make is calling too much. Take full advantage of that mistake.

baudib1 said:

With 6 players in I'm leading and probably for pot, as played 3-bet to like 20 cents probably.

never folding pre in a limped pot.

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3bet you think on the flop to that chicken sh*T raise; or the turn?

. . .i guess honestly its kinda of irrelevant as at the turn i had best equity, and should have potted or shoved. . .

thanks fellas for the great advice as always!

Completing preflop here is totally standard and perfect. When I flop the nuts like this, first to act, in a massive limped pot, I am check raising here pretty much 100% of the time. I want to get the most money in the pot as soon as possible and I think check/raise allows us to do just that.

A c/r seems ok here because the flop is dry enough and there no bad cards that can come on the turn for our hand here but because 2nl is so passive and its a limped pot we cant be sure that someone will bet here, and if no one bets then its gonna be hard to win a big pot with our monster.

Preflop is fine, you do not want to be OOP MW with pocket 6s, because most of the time you're going to miss and be behind to the field, simple as.

Flop, I bet out as you did, but for more (at least 8, maybe 9 or 10), and when you get reraised you start rubbing your hands and 3betting. Turn = BIG ASS RAISE, you've got the mofoing nuts (almost), so bump it up to 30 or something.

But really, you should have 3 bet on the flop and then lead out for enough on the turn to stack him on the river.

BlackRain79 said:

Completing preflop here is totally standard and perfect. When I flop the nuts like this, first to act, in a massive limped pot, I am check raising here pretty much 100% of the time. I want to get the most money in the pot as soon as possible and I think check/raise allows us to do just that.

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I do this because there's always someone that is going to place a bet and there's always a bunch of people that will call that bet. c/r bloats the pot and at 2NL it's not that hard that we get shoved by a guy with TP or overpair.

The only problem with CR, and it may not be that big a problem, is that there are sooooo many people in the pot I'd like to collect as many bets as possible. Betting here, we got the first two EP limpers to call when they may not have bet themselves.

I prefer a bet first here for the same reasons others have said, it's not that unlikely to be checked round and we need to bet first to build a pot to gain some value for our hand and not allow 57/79/34/45 to draw for free. C/r would be better if there was a flush draw out or an A imo

You played it like you hate money. Get more value please

bgomez89 said:

You played it like you hate money. Get more value please

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Ya deff! Thanks for all the extra feedback. . .ya I wanted to get a few others to come along. . .but ya I should have been trying to get WAY more value and like I said before, even if I 3bet flop or pot the turn or 2/3rd pot the turn, and they all fold, at least I tried to extract most value.

Obviously oop here w/ 66 is an instafold- except on a limped pot- like that, however, if my equity is no good on the flop, and get pushed back at i also would have folded. . . . .so onward and upward. . . more value it is!

completing pre is fine, you've got great odds to set mine and raising achieves nothing

post is not good - bet way bigger flop, 3bet his raise, or you could have led or check raised turn, and when you get to the river why are you suddenly potting it when the relative strength of your hand just decreased massively?

Pascal LeFiscal said:

completing pre is fine, you've got great odds to set mine and raising achieves nothing

post is not good - bet way bigger flop, 3bet his raise, or you could have led or check raised turn, and when you get to the river why are you suddenly potting it when the relative strength of your hand just decreased massively?

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thanks Pascal!

The river just looked like a panic bet, the second 8 hit and you just though 'oh **** my hand might not be good' and bet big

+1 to pascal what's up with the pot bet on the river?

Pre is good. This many limpers is ideal for PP>

Post I am ok with the small bet being something that you do in this situation on the flop but ONLY if you 3bet if raised. Otherwise there is no point to it. With the small bet you can get the most amount of people to commit some of their chips to the pot and when one of the donks raises you can get collect all of that dead money.

If you dont want to make that play the standard c/r is good but also a pot sized bet is good to maximize value. So essentially the only wrong play on this flop is to call.

On the turn I am again ok with a check cause you have essentially the nuts. But if you check and it is bet to you you HAVE to RAISE. You have to get your money in ASAP before he misses his draw or a cooler card comes out. (think about what kind of hand he could have? What does he have that limped in MP and then on this board is raising and betting? Bet/raise just enough to make him pay to see his str8 or flush).

On the River a cooler card came out. Now you dont know where to stand. I think here I am betting a small value bet or check/call to see the showdown. He is going to fold most of his hands unless he has a 2 or 8 so we bet just enough to get a 2 to see what we have. Unless this guy is a complete NIT we call his bluffs and if he has an 8 so be it (but if we would have 3bet and bet big on flop and turn most 8 would have folded leaving in only st8 and flushes that did not hit).

why would you ever want to "collect dead money" by 3 betting with a set as a way of folding out worse hands? the only reason you 3bet is for value, because a high turn can scare off 8x hands

if 3betting flop/betting big on flop + turn makes an 8 fold then it's a bad play, ducy?

"dead money" was not the right term. I guess what I mean is actually classified as "value". What I meant is I want to 3/Bet flop to get the BS hands who called the initial bet to pay more because it was initially "cheap".

Hands like a 5x or two random diamonds that limped pre and called the small raise to just see what is coming. I want them to stay if they want to gamble but I need to make sure they dont get free cards and they pay max for their gamble.

Also, I dont mind if I get one total BS hand to call a small bet to gamble but I dont like 3 or 4 people in a pot with drawing hands when I have a set on the flop. We need to bet to get value from them or they need to fold.

On the flop the board has some str8 possibilities and all villains have limped pre so what happens if the turn and river come 5, 7? Not saying we want to push people out with the gut or runner runner but we have to ensure that 1) that when we have the chance that they pay for their gamble and 2) that they dont get proper odds to call unless we have the nuts (like when the 2 on the turn comes out). Betting 1/3 pot on the flop (giving at least 4 to 1 odds) does not cover that and allows BS hands to call, when I have the chance I want to string them along for more $ if they are willing to pay or get them out so that cant catch on me.

My little () about betting so much that we get the 8 to fold was truly a mind manipulation in my head so that there is no way to loose this particular hand... But in the real world getting the 8 to fold would be a bad play and lost value and the 8 on the river is just an unlucky card.