$2 NLHE 6-max: Low flush turn decision

888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $1.33 (67 bb)
MP: $4.23 (212 bb)
CO: $0.97 (49 bb)
BU: $1.27 (64 bb)
SB: $2.05 (103 bb)
BB (Hero): $3.51 (176 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with 6♥ 5♥
3 players fold, BTN raises to $0.05, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.03

Flop: ($0.11) J♥ 7♥ Q♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.07, Hero calls $0.07

Turn: ($0.25) 9♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.14, Hero calls $0.14

River: ($0.53) 5♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.35, Hero calls $0.35

Villain VPIP/PFR/3bet/AF , 19/15/6.1/2.2 over 110 hands

Questions:
1. Would you check raise the turn or river?

I would check raise the river to try and extract value from sets, straights and loose players with top pairs. You have a lower flush, but more often than not you are running into weaker hands. Wouldn't be happy if the response to the check raise is a jam.

I prefer check raise at river. But the size could be min-raise to control the pot. If villain jam vs our min-raise, we can easy fold.

According to the villain' s number, he is a standard regular. So we can put his bet/bet/bet range at two pair or set. It's totally can check raise to get value.

I would check raise turn here.

i would have check raised the flop to build the pot, on the turn your raise means flush it's hard to extract money there, on the river u have to raise i would go allin and let him take a decision, let him make the hero call

I prefer to check/raise on the turn, maybe wait for take the action and open raise on the river, or check raise in the river, It will depend on the way like the villain had play in the others hands.

In according of the villain image, maybe can I open shove on the river.

If you check-raise the turn you are leading the river and some rivers will kill your action.

I prefer a check-raise on the river.

I will talk about preflop because 65s is like bottom hand in your range and this hand doesn't play so good oop as people think. Even vs 2.5x open. I would prefer to 3bet bluff it. But I guess vs that player call could be a little better.

About postflop I raise it on turn vs a weak player (64bb). Raising flop as someone mentioned is total no sense. You get good odds and on these stakes smaller feq from weaker players.

X/r turn. I could see the benefit of calling less vulnerable flushes on the turn to stick it to villain on the river. But this is just too vulnerable!

Not raising is bad though.

Thanks everyone, I lost some values here not raising turn or river
This flush is quite vulnerable and does need protection and happy to get it in given effective stack is 64BB.

Villain had 43hh here....didn't expect his range is that wide

Villain's open is not so bad here, 888 Snap is super tight and the blinds generally are not well defended. I've been tempted to start opening from the button with about 80% of hands but can't bring myself to do it

I don't mind your call with 65s either. I quite like seeing flops cheap with speculative hands in micro fast fold games, particularly in position but it can be ok in the BB too if you avoid spewing chips into the pot when you completely miss. Does become important to get value when you do connect though. When those hands do connect with the flop they can play very well against the higher premium hands that many of the nits on these tables are restricting themselves too.

I'd have check raised on the turn also and be trying to get it all in, despite the risk of better flushes.

quant1986 said:

Thanks everyone, I lost some values here not raising turn or river
This flush is quite vulnerable and does need protection and happy to get it in given effective stack is 64BB.

Villain had 43hh here....didn't expect his range is that wide

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You're playing 0.01/0.02. I know there's some belief that Snap is played very tightly, but my experience has been the opposite. Expect anything.

I think that raising the turn versus this sizing is the play. When someone uses this kind of sizing on a wet board, I wouldn't be surprised if they're often getting one last street of value with 2 pair + and intending on checking back the river.

Misaki said:

I will talk about preflop because 65s is like bottom hand in your range and this hand doesn't play so good oop as people think. Even vs 2.5x open. I would prefer to 3bet bluff it. But I guess vs that player call could be a little better.

About postflop I raise it on turn vs a weak player (64bb). Raising flop as someone mentioned is total no sense. You get good odds and on these stakes smaller feq from weaker players.

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why better ? why reise on turn better ? :heeeellll

omnom8 said:

why better ? why reise on turn better ? :heeeellll

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Because on flop we have worst possible flush draw in our range. We get acceptable odds and I don't expect too many folds from villain on the flop. So call.

Now I see I made some mistake in last post because on 888 you can't play with 100bbs as default buy in . Forgot about it. It changes things a bit as villain have some tag stats (even after 110 hands) and we don't have the nuts here. Now I think check/call turn and river is better. Or maybe even check/fold river. Villain will only barrel flushes on nl2 there. Because these stakes are so passive and most of the guys can't triple barrel Ah there. So by raising turn or river we mostly isolate ourselves vs a better flush.

Misaki said:

Because on flop we have worst possible flush draw in our range. We get acceptable odds and I don't expect too many folds from villain on the flop. So call.

Now I see I made some mistake in last post because on 888 you can't play with 100bbs as default buy in . Forgot about it. It changes things a bit as villain have some tag stats (even after 110 hands) and we don't have the nuts here. Now I think check/call turn and river is better. Or maybe even check/fold river. Villain will only barrel flushes on nl2 there. Because these stakes are so passive and most of the guys can't triple barrel Ah there. So by raising turn or river we mostly isolate ourselves vs a better flush.

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But villain isn’t passive. AF of 2.2. That’s more betting than checking.

The reason not to raise flop is because villain has range and nut advantage and our value range is pretty narrow. Although at this stack depth it matters a lot less.

The value range expands on the turn, it’s a dynamic board and villain will call 2nd best hands and some draws. We x/r because we have a vulnerable flush. We need to find some bluffs here too.

Folding river is dire. Villain offers us 2.5-1 and your going to fold a flush?

I’m not sure your taking stacks into account. Not raising 200bb deep is fine. But at 65bb?

Gabe16 said:

But villain isn’t passive. AF of 2.2. That’s more betting than checking.

The reason not to raise flop is because villain has range and nut advantage and our value range is pretty narrow. Although at this stack depth it matters a lot less.

The value range expands on the turn, it’s a dynamic board and villain will call 2nd best hands and some draws. We x/r because we have a vulnerable flush. We need to find some bluffs here too.

Folding river is dire. Villain offers us 2.5-1 and your going to fold a flush?

I’m not sure your taking stacks into account. Not raising 200bb deep is fine. But at 65bb?

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It's 110 hands. After that small sample sometimes I had af like 8.0.
I disagree that we need to find some bluffs here. It's nl2 and I won't judge this hand like I would play on nl25+. But ye. We have a value raise on turn. My mistake. This 50bb max buy in on 888 messed up my mind for a moment.

Misaki said:

It's 110 hands. After that small sample sometimes I had af like 8.0.
I disagree that we need to find some bluffs here. It's nl2 and I won't judge this hand like I would play on nl25+. But ye. We have a value raise on turn. My mistake. This 50bb max buy in on 888 messed up my mind for a moment.

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Underbluff by all means (by a long way too) but we still need some semi bluffs. It’s a waste not to do so when we have so much value.

19 VIP for me to low for being a good TAG on 6 MAX would expect a good TAG to being 22 VIP at least.

Anyway 56s I like the call preflop (I rather complete on the BB then 3 bet) and on the flop.

Would def check raise on the turn (playing 56s one cant be afraid of better flushes) to let sets and one card flush draws pay for the right to see the next card. And as there are plenty of high card hearts left your hand needs protection as you did conclude yourself.

Hujiko said:

19 VIP for me to low for being a good TAG on 6 MAX would expect a good TAG to being 22 VIP at least.

Anyway 56s I like the call preflop (I rather complete on the BB then 3 bet) and on the flop.

Would def check raise on the turn (playing 56s one cant be afraid of better flushes) to let sets and one card flush draws pay for the right to see the next card. And as there are plenty of high card hearts left your hand needs protection as you did conclude yourself.

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I know a solid nl1k + reg who used to play 19/16. People who try to have good looking stats are often the losing players. Stats are only the stats. You can't never say that someone who plays 25/23 is better than guy playing 19/16 because it's not truth. It's always about how you play your range preflop and postflop.

About this hand and villain's stats. People just make many mistakes judging vpip/pfr after 100-200 hands. This guy from BU can be a nit playing 12/10 or he can play 30/26 in a long run.

And finally about 56s. Just look in your databases if you lose less than 100bb/100 on BB with 56s. That will give you some answers. I think most of the guys can't play it more profitable than -100bb/100.

Misaki said:

I know a solid nl1k + reg who used to play 19/16. People who try to have good looking stats are often the losing players. Stats are only the stats. You can't never say that someone who plays 25/23 is better than guy playing 19/16 because it's not truth. It's always about how you play your range preflop and postflop.

About this hand and villain's stats. People just make many mistakes judging vpip/pfr after 100-200 hands. This guy from BU can be a nit playing 12/10 or he can play 30/26 in a long run.

And finally about 56s. Just look in your databases if you lose less than 100bb/100 on BB with 56s. That will give you some answers. I think most of the guys can't play it more profitable than -100bb/100.

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Agree with most of your saying but I only say that I expect a good TAG to have at least a 22 VIP. A good REG can have 19 VIP on 6 MAX and be a winning player, but a good tag will win more ofc just generally speaking about 6 MAX.

___________________________My C Won
ROCK VIP < 17 _________________ 3
NIT 17 < VIP < 22 _______________ -9
TIGHT 22 < VIP < 27 ____________ 15
LAG 27 < VIP < 32 ______________ -39
MANIAC 32 < VIP______________ -43
HEAVY LIMPER _______________ -59
ALL ___________________________ -6

Here is what I use as an indication of the player types on 6 MAX FAST (50 NL) and how they perform (won averaged on BB per 100 hands).

cs_rlewis said:

I would check raise turn here.

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I would play like that too