10nl FR: Does he has it or not ?

Pretty unknown. Standard Everest 26 vpip after 20 hands and about 16 PFR, which is rather high for the norm. Most players just have 30-40 vpip from limping and flatting all the time and like 3-8 PFR.

EverestPoker Game #4027999111: Table Riga-27 - $.05/$.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:18:26 - 2008/12/10
Seat 1: Enzoak ($8.53)
Seat 2: entYy ($14.65)
Seat 3: promyk82x ($1.85)
Seat 4: Jocker-Nenez ($0.84)
Seat 5: FillingTime ($18.76)
Seat 7: rom_02 ($1.90)
Seat 8: funikuli ($1.95)
Seat 9: chocapic ($9.90)
Seat 10: bvgcicero ($10.90)
FillingTime posts the small blind of $0.05
rom_02 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to entYy [Ks Ah]
funikuli folds
chocapic folds
bvgcicero raises to $0.35
Enzoak calls $0.35
entYy raises to $1.55
promyk82x folds
Jocker-Nenez folds
FillingTime folds
rom_02 folds
bvgcicero raises to $2.75
Enzoak folds
entYy calls $1.20
*** FLOP *** [Jc Kd 5s]
bvgcicero checks
entYy bets $3.00
bvgcicero calls $3.00
*** TURN *** [6c]
bvgcicero checks
entYy checks
*** RIVER *** [9h]
bvgcicero checks
entYy ????

Play up to river ? Call/check/raise ?
Does he has the bullets or not ?

the first hands you think of with 4bets are big pairs of course - KK is unlikely given you have AK; AA and JJ would be betting at this point i think as i feel he wouldn't check the river with these; QQ looks logical, i'd bet half the pot here hoping for a call. if i get raised big i'm looking at folding

Why are we flatting a 4-bet with AK? We should be jamming this all in most of the time, because we're going to whiff the flop about 60% of the time. Flat a 4-bet with KK or AA, MAYBE queens & jacks, but I'm jamming AK oh so very often.

As played, I shove the river. We've got ~8$ behind, and the pot is about 11. No sense in doing anything else.

calls seem to be a drawing hand to me , maybe a slow play on river with villan holding something like queen, 10 of clubs.

I'm not really sure I like shoving here cuz you really don't get called by anything worse (Maybe QQ if villain is prone to making hero calls and puts us on like AQ or something). Our hand is pretty much face up at this point imo and I think a check is better here than a shove.

Bet/folding this river is out of the question with stack sizes. So imo,

Check>Shove

rileyl said:

Our hand is pretty much face up at this point imo and I think a check is better here than a shove.

Click to expand...

Uh... what? This guy has checked all 3 streets. The possibility that he has aces or kings is oh so small. Plus our hand is far from face up, since we should gladly be stacking TPTK, yet we bet a smallish bet on the flop, and checked back the turn.

Guys who are 26/16 at these microlimits probably aren't the type to slowplay 3 streets with a monster unless our image absolutely blows. We have TPTK in a 4-bet pot! Villain's range here is QQ and slowplayed monsters, and I gleefully shove my remaining $8 in and expect QQ to call us fairly often because of the passive way we played the hand.

I agree with you that I think we are ahead of his range on the river. I don't think he has AA although it is definitely possible. QQ does seem the most likely holding for him. But just b/c we are ahead of his range of hands he may have, I don't think we are ahead of the range that he CALLS our river shove with. I guess the main difference between our views is our view on how often he's calling with QQ. I just don't think he's calling often enough with QQ to balance the times that he has AA or some other weird hand that has us beat.

rileyl said:

I just don't think he's calling often enough with QQ to balance the times that he has AA or some other weird hand that has us beat.

Click to expand...

So we should lower the size of our bet to like $2 to induce more calls? If we're ahead of his range, and he'll call a bet of some size, we certainly need to bet. I think the question here is just wether to bet like 1-2$ to induce a spitecall from QQ, or to shove it in.

I like shove, since even when we shove, we're giving him 2.4:1, and people get spewy/attached to big pairs at these limits, especially in 3-bet/4-bet pots. A 2$ bet has to be called 4 times more often than shoving. So I just jammit.

I mean I definitely don't mind betting $2 or some little bet on the river as long as you can be sure that he has you beat if he raises. In this spot it's pretty unlikely for him to raise you with worse so betting $2 is probably fine since he probably never will turn QQ into a bluff in this situation. I'm just normally against these smallish blocking type bets for the simple fact that they can be really exploited and are pretty transparent to any observant player.

rileyl said:

they can be really exploited and are pretty transparent to any observant player.

Click to expand...

1) We're at 10$ NL, these players suck.
2) I'm never ever ever bet/folding here. Pot is too big, our hand is too strong, and we may be inducing bluffs by betting small.

Bet the turn, makes things easier. There's a straight draw and flush draw by the turn; Checking behind TPTK in a four-bet pot with draws on board is pretty insane imo. If you were deeper-stacked I'd say you can bet-fold the turn if he minraises but we should probably push the turn. Or bet like $4 on the turn and then it becomes a trivial matter to get the rest in on the river -- those are bets QQ is more likely to call. At these stakes and his stats, we are way ahead of his range, he is more likely imo to have AJ/TT/AQ than AA/KK/JJ. I doubt if $10NL players even understand the concept of blocking bets.

I also agree you should probably push this preflop.

i like shove on the preflop. Very good odds for you.
But for the river play put a bet out there to put him all-in..

c9h13no3 said:

Why are we flatting a 4-bet with AK? We should be jamming this all in most of the time, because we're going to whiff the flop about 60% of the time. Flat a 4-bet with KK or AA, MAYBE queens & jacks, but I'm jamming AK oh so very often.

Click to expand...

I'm ok with flatting the 4-bet here because we're in position, and it was a small 4-bet giving us great pot odds. I don't even think shoving is more profitable than calling here. At these stakes and with the % of stack that the villain's already put in, I don't think you have much fold equity at all. If AQ or weaker isn't in his 4-betting range, then I think I prefer flat calling to shoving preflop. You may have a higher % to win from shoving, but you're also getting much worse pot odds and killing the implied odds from seeing a flop. I would argue those implied odds are very strong here because you're in position.

EDIT: I realized it might be a bit confusing to call it "implied odds". I'm not trying to say that you win more when you're best at showdown. I'm saying you win more relative to the amount you're risking to call than you do relative to the amount you're risking to shove. This is because you're making a multi-stage investment. You think the investment is good enough to call preflop, and then you can re-evaluate on the flop and bail out if the investment turns bad or put more money in if the investment looks good. In the shoving case, you're putting all the money in on an investment that looks ok but not great.

c9h13no3 said:

A 2$ bet has to be called 4 times more often than shoving. So I just jammit.

Click to expand...

Read this over many times. This is a concept that many people just don't quite get. The highest ev move (at this point) is shove.

toybits said:

i'd bet half the pot here hoping for a call. if i get raised big i'm looking at folding

Click to expand...

Bah, responses like these that don't even GLANCE at stack sizes really tilt me.

c9h13no3 said:

As played, I shove the river. We've got ~8$ behind, and the pot is about 11. No sense in doing anything else.

Click to expand...

Not only this, but villain only has $5.15 left in his stack. He would be getting over 3.25:1 if we put him all in. Shove!!

Ok I agree with shoving on river.
I don't like shoving it preflop though.
Generally I don't like to stack off with AK preflop for full stacks. Is this a leak ?

As for his range yeah I'd say QQ-TT is most likely. I don't think AQ or worse is four betting. But seeing as the 4bet was rather small I opted for the flat with probably bailing out on flop if we don't hit. Probably a huge -EV play ?

As it turned out I checked. Dunno why.. Scared for a slowplay?
And he turned over TT