Why push so hard?

I am pretty sure 90%, if not more of us, are guilty of it. Lets say you are dealt AA, you raise it 3-4X the BB and get one caller. The flop is J-8-4 rainbow and you bet out with a 1/4 to 1/2 pot bet. Your bet then gets reraised double what you bet, so now you push all in for the rest of you chips. You flip over your AA, your opponent turns over JJ and you are crushed.

Why do we do this? Why are we not happy with just calling the raise, playing it out and try winning a medium size pot? Instead, we try to push as hard as we can just to see that we are beat and lose a huge portion of out chips in one hand. So, is it either all or nothing? I know it has to do with greed and/or trying to be the tough guy. If it is greed wouldn't you show more profit if you win a lot of medium size pots and losing small one, compared to, winning a big one and losing a bigger one? The tough guy thing kills me, I don't think anyone is tougher then anyone else at the table, unless you let them. How dare you reraise me when I have pocket aces!!

I guess I am just trying to think out loud and see where others go with this. So please any thoughts or additions to this would be appreciated.

Why is every post its own thread? Do you even come back to read them? I might start responding to them if you do, please post proof here.

I can see you take some time writing them, I just wonder why you start so many discussions and never take part past the OP.

In tourneys yea this spot happens alot.... you cant always put your opponent on a set though....unless you feel like that hand is in your opponents range more often than not.

In cash games AA/KK is alot easier to escape from. Its not so much your cards as it is your opponents cards. You can pick your spots alot better and stack off when you feel like you are ahead, not in a forced decision (tourney) and being a massive underdog as per running overpair into set, this should not happen often, rarely even, if it does maybe its against a lucky fish....but most low stakes regs will basically tell you when they have a set.

In low buy-in tourneys your opponent will often raise and push with hands like AJ KJ QJ KK QQ here and sometimes worse.

tpb221 said:

In low buy-in tourneys your opponent will often raise and push with hands like AJ KJ QJ KK QQ here and sometimes worse.

Click to expand...

+1

The play is so poor for the most part by others that we get paid more when villain is coming over the top of our continuation with TPTK than the times we run into a set or two pairs.

In fact I just had this hand:

pokerstars Game #29109466861: Tournament #170033870, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2009/06/07 18:11:20 ET
Table '170033870 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 3: djgolfcan (2650 in chips)
Seat 4: insane0404 (2895 in chips)
Seat 5: aleebebop (1235 in chips)
Seat 7: pitifulwheel (3940 in chips)
Seat 9: mth-27 (2780 in chips)
insane0404: posts small blind 100
aleebebop: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to djgolfcan [Ah As]
pitifulwheel: raises 400 to 600
mth-27: folds
djgolfcan: raises 800 to 1400
insane0404: folds
aleebebop: folds
pitifulwheel: calls 800
*** FLOP *** [9d 3h Jc]
pitifulwheel: checks
djgolfcan: bets 1250 and is all-in
pitifulwheel: calls 1250
*** TURN *** [9d 3h Jc] [7s]
*** RIVER *** [9d 3h Jc 7s] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pitifulwheel: shows [Td Qd] (a pair of Threes)
djgolfcan: shows [Ah As] (two pair, Aces and Threes)
djgolfcan collected 5600 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5600 | Rake 0
Board [9d 3h Jc 7s 3c]
Seat 3: djgolfcan (button) showed [Ah As] and won (5600) with two pair, Aces and Threes
Seat 4: insane0404 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: aleebebop (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: pitifulwheel showed [Td Qd] and lost with a pair of Threes
Seat 9: mth-27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

You really think that if they have top set you're just going to play a medium pot? Regardless of whether you go all in or just call, they are betting again on the turn and the rest of the river. Short of folding, you aren't going to play a smaller pot regardless of how you play that hand.

Its hard for me to say how to play AA, since I never get that hand.

Lower the buy in more you should raise

So every time you have AA they have a set?

when you have a big hand you wanna get paid for it.

if you lose to JJ, than thats a chance you gotta take.

more likely than not though your ahead after the flop.....80%

they could reraise you big with a flopped set if they're worried about you chasing a flush/straight downriver...

dumpy620_84 said:

I am pretty sure 90%, if not more of us, are guilty of it. Lets say you are dealt AA, you raise it 3-4X the BB and get one caller. The flop is J-8-4 rainbow and you bet out with a 1/4 to 1/2 pot bet. Your bet then gets reraised double what you bet, so now you push all in for the rest of you chips. You flip over your AA, your opponent turns over JJ and you are crushed.

Click to expand...

A min raise on the flop is often a sign of a set. (I play at the micros and this is quite common. They want to give you irresistible odds to keep calling.) When I have an overpair and get min raised or min check raised (especially the latter) alarms go off. I can't always force myself to get away from my hand but sometimes I do escape. A lot depends on stack sizes.

I'd say the reason strongly has to do with the flop. You've got an overpair and it's highly unlikely for your opponent to have holes matching a flopped card. Seems to me the unconnecting (largely unconnecting), rainbow flop provides few outs against your AA hole cards. You've probably succumbed to either the strength of your cards, the belief that your opponent is trying a stupid re-raise muscle, or both.

from my perspective the reason i normally push is because we watch too much poker on television and get the idea that we should push with these hands and thats the way its done... at least thats why i did it at first... i have folded aces very little... maybe why i have no money haha

dumpy620_84 said:

I am pretty sure 90%, if not more of us, are guilty of it. Lets say you are dealt AA, you raise it 3-4X the BB and get one caller. The flop is J-8-4 rainbow and you bet out with a 1/4 to 1/2 pot bet. Your bet then gets reraised double what you bet, so now you push all in for the rest of you chips. You flip over your AA, your opponent turns over JJ and you are crushed.

Why do we do this? Why are we not happy with just calling the raise, playing it out and try winning a medium size pot? Instead, we try to push as hard as we can just to see that we are beat and lose a huge portion of out chips in one hand. So, is it either all or nothing? I know it has to do with greed and/or trying to be the tough guy. If it is greed wouldn't you show more profit if you win a lot of medium size pots and losing small one, compared to, winning a big one and losing a bigger one? The tough guy thing kills me, I don't think anyone is tougher then anyone else at the table, unless you let them. How dare you reraise me when I have pocket aces!!

I guess I am just trying to think out loud and see where others go with this. So please any thoughts or additions to this would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

Because online tournaments are generally fairly short stacked so you need to make a move early, while in live tournaments this doesn't happen becuase stacks are deeper.

Yup... I nearly always shove with aces postflop... just can't help myself. At least sometimes when I run into a set I manage to catch my set on the turn or river which eases the pain

In the scenario you depicted, I would not advocate the c-bet the board isn't draw heavy or paired so why not give a free card. When your opponent bets then you will know based on how he acts if he is bluffing or if he has a set. What position he is betting from should help to determine this as well as his bet sizing!

As far as being a donk and overvaluing and/or overbetting sounds like you have a leak and need to play more cash tables!!!!!!

Good luck out there!!!