What really is a "suckout"??

Ok, so lately I've been playing a lot of micro stakes single table S N G's and doing really, really well in them because at least half the table is usually full of horrible players - it's like shooting fish in a barrell, lol.

So today, one of these horrible players made a really bad call post flop....it went down like this:

I had Ac10d in the small blind with 1 limper before me, then the big blind checks.

Flop comes AdKs7h

So I lead out and take a pot size bet - figure let's end this hand early and move on to the next one.

BB min raises so I push all in. (I was somewhat short stacked, had about 15 bb left with 5 players left, so I figured now was as good a time as any)

So the BB calls and immediately I figured I was beat - he either has 2 pair or has me outkicked - so the knucklehead turns over KcQh - and I'm like, what a moron...lol.

Then the turn comes a Q - you've gotta be kidding me, right? lol

Oh well, my tournament is over - wasn't meant to be, I almost closed the window when the river hits a 10....lol....

So then this player goes on a rampage in the chat box saying, "nice suckout, etc...name calling, etc"

And I'm just laughing to myself the entire time because he's so dumb he doesn't realize how bad of a player he really is - the fact of the matter is that he sucked out first by hitting the turn - so my question is, DID I SUCK OUT OR IS HE REALLY THE ONE WHO SUCKED OUT?

I figure, you can only suck out once per hand so, I was ahead, then behind then won....that's not really a suckout IMO.

I wouldn't say you sucked out because you got your chips in while ahead.

A lot of sucking going on, but I would say he was the one who sucked out since you were ahead to begin with.

No such thing as a suckout. It's just probability balancing out.

lol WTF he sucked out and you re-sucked. Its never a suckout if your ahead when you get the money in good.

You gotta love those suckouts!

a rose by any other name.

Let the expert rule here. Neither was a suck out. A suckout would be if he had 2 diamonds and called and a flush hitting the board.
It is filling an outrageous call for the win. Suckouts only count if they are str8s, flushes, or boats.

A better example would be if you had AK and you opponent called that hand with J9. Classic suckout then.

Just my opinion here but with 2 other limpers with A A,K,7 flop why would you put a pot size bet out there? Theres such a variety of hands they could have there and then you reraise all in after he raises you? I mean im a below average player but I think I wouldve folded after he reraised you unless you had a good read on him. Am i a little right or is my lack of experience showing here?

Hmmm, I thought a suck out was when an inferior hand beats a heavily favored hand? I agree with bubbasbestbabe...no suck out. As far as relative hand strength preflop, A.10off & K.Qoff both rank in the top 25. Now I'm thinking if someone stayed in with J.7off that would have definitely been a suck out IMHO.

full tilt poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 429926
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

MP: $4.83
CO: $11.98
BTN: $8.67
Hero (SB): $5.07
BB: $9.43
UTG: $4.00

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with K A
UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.15, BTN calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.65) Q 5 T (3 players)
Hero bets $0.35, UTG calls $0.35, BTN calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.70) J (3 players)
Hero bets $0.40, UTG raises to $3.45 all in, BTN raises to $6.50, Hero calls $4.12 all in

River: ($14.19) A (3 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $14.19
BTN shows 9 K (a straight, Ace high)
Hero shows K A (a straight, Ace high)
UTG shows K 9 (a straight, Ace high)
Hero wins $0.00
BTN wins $0.00
Hero wins $0.00
UTG wins $0.00
BTN wins $0.00
(Rake: $14.19)

Here is an example.

Not sure why it says rake of 14.19, lol.

EDIT: Just checked the odds on that. I was 93% to win after the turn, and they were essentially drawing dead. Poker is a hilarious game.

I'm pretty sure a suckout is when two made hands go at it, and the lesser of the made hands comes from behind because he hits. I wouldn't call it a suckout if the player who was behind was drawing. Also, getting counterfeited = getting sucked out on. You have A2 on a flop of AA2, get all your money in, guy calls with AK, and a K comes = getting sucked out on. You have AK flop comes AJT, push, guy calls with Q9 and makes a straight: getting outdrawn.

My above HH is a perfect example of a suckout. I had the effective nuts, and they BOTH hit a 3 outer for a split pot.

thechamps said:

Just my opinion here but with 2 other limpers with A A,K,7 flop why would you put a pot size bet out there? Theres such a variety of hands they could have there and then you reraise all in after he raises you? I mean im a below average player but I think I wouldve folded after he reraised you unless you had a good read on him. Am i a little right or is my lack of experience showing here?

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Well, I'm not sure if you read my entire post but we were down to 5 players and I had only about 15 bb left - so yes, in that situation if I don't have the best hand (which from my experience from playing 2+ million hands and 20 years or so would only happen less than 20% of the time, 5 handed) then it just wasn't my time to win the tourney.

At that point being short stacked, there was very little chance of me having a better opportunity to stay alive and possibly double up. 5 handed, top pair aces with a K - 10 kicker is as about as good as it gets with 15 bb left....and to answer your other question, yes, he was a very loose, inexperienced player, IMO He was making calls with 2nd pair the entire tourney and getting super lucky.

this my friend is what is called the suck re suck..........his play wasnt completely off quilter....just didnt put you on an ace and went with it....but can argue altogether both of you played it bad....in a tourney you should tread lightly unless you know you got the nuts .....all i can say in the lower levels and freerolls your gonna get alot of middle pair check shoves ..see it all day long

three3y3 said:

this my friend is what is called the suck re suck..........his play wasnt completely off quilter....just didnt put you on an ace and went with it....but can argue altogether both of you played it bad....in a tourney you should tread lightly unless you know you got the nuts .....all i can say in the lower levels and freerolls your gonna get alot of middle pair check shoves ..see it all day long

Click to expand...

Ok, so the truth comes out....it was you, wasn't it? lol


Ps - it wasn't a freeroll - it was a $2 + $.40 single table 9 max SnG. (you should know that since you were there, lol)

Q: What really is a "suckout"??

A: A suckout can defined as three things:

1.) A suckout: When someone has been bitten from a poisinous snake and is said to be in need of a "suckout"

2.) A suckout: When someone in poker wins a hand under impossible odds.

3.) A suckout: When someone performs...

Yeah this is a joke but yeah definition number 2 seems right lol

A suckout is what every guy does when he beats me. At least that's the story I tell my buddies.

I don't know if this was a suckout but I was some pissed !!

Doing well in the poker stars 20k freeroll the one with the password from the TV show play for a million.

we're down to 1600 from 38,000 entrants

I've got 42,000 chips and get pocket ACES A spades over A diamonds

player 1st out from big blind bets 12k I push all in, he's got 37k in chips total. he shows ACE clubs 10 hearts. yup comes up 10 10 7 k

6 SHTTTTTTTTTT

Ok, check this one "all timer out" I'm still in shock:

Stage #2064285438 Tourney ID 4827058 Holdem Single Tournament No Limit 60 - 2009-12-18 15:17:45 (ET)
Table: 33289739 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 1 - KKASANOVAA (5,160 in chips)
Seat 3 - FRANCES IVY (1,435 in chips)
Seat 4 - DALLAS CMSB (1,265 in chips)
Seat 6 - JONNY43L (1,245 in chips)
Seat 7 - LUCKY GREEN (2,360 in chips)
Seat 9 - SPOLECAT (2,035 in chips)
DALLAS CMSB - Posts small blind 30
JONNY43L - Posts big blind 60
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to KKASANOVAA [10c Ac]
LUCKY GREEN - Calls 60
SPOLECAT - Folds
KKASANOVAA - Calls 60
FRANCES IVY - Folds
DALLAS CMSB - Calls 30
JONNY43L - Checks
*** FLOP *** [Qh Kd Jd]
DALLAS CMSB - Checks
JONNY43L - Checks
LUCKY GREEN - Bets 240
KKASANOVAA - Raises 960 to 960
DALLAS CMSB - Folds
JONNY43L - Folds
LUCKY GREEN - Raises 1,440 to 1,680
KKASANOVAA - All-In(Raise) 4,140 to 5,100
LUCKY GREEN - All-In 620
KKASANOVAA - returned (2,800) : not called
*** TURN *** [Qh Kd Jd] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [Qh Kd Jd 3h] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
KKASANOVAA - Shows [10c Ac] (Straight, ten to ace)
LUCKY GREEN - Shows [10h 9h] (Flush, queen high)
LUCKY GREEN Collects 4,840 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot(4,840)
Board [Qh Kd Jd 3h 6h]
Seat 1: KKASANOVAA HI:lost with Straight, ten to ace [10c Ac - P:Ac,B:Kd,B:Qh,B:Jd,P:10c]
Seat 3: FRANCES IVY (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: DALLAS CMSB (small blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 6: JONNY43L (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 7: LUCKY GREEN won Total (4,840) All-In HI4,840) with Flush, queen high [10h 9h - B:Qh,P:10h,P:9h,B:6h,B:3h]
Seat 9: SPOLECAT Folded on the POCKET CARDS



I just had to laugh after that one.

Kasanova King said:

Ok, check this one "all timer out" I'm still in shock:

Stage #2064285438 Tourney ID 4827058 Holdem Single Tournament No Limit 60 - 2009-12-18 15:17:45 (ET)
Table: 33289739 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 1 - KKASANOVAA (5,160 in chips)
Seat 3 - FRANCES IVY (1,435 in chips)
Seat 4 - DALLAS CMSB (1,265 in chips)
Seat 6 - JONNY43L (1,245 in chips)
Seat 7 - LUCKY GREEN (2,360 in chips)
Seat 9 - SPOLECAT (2,035 in chips)
DALLAS CMSB - Posts small blind 30
JONNY43L - Posts big blind 60
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to KKASANOVAA [10c Ac]
LUCKY GREEN - Calls 60
SPOLECAT - Folds
KKASANOVAA - Calls 60
FRANCES IVY - Folds
DALLAS CMSB - Calls 30
JONNY43L - Checks
*** FLOP *** [Qh Kd Jd]
DALLAS CMSB - Checks
JONNY43L - Checks
LUCKY GREEN - Bets 240
KKASANOVAA - Raises 960 to 960
DALLAS CMSB - Folds
JONNY43L - Folds
LUCKY GREEN - Raises 1,440 to 1,680
KKASANOVAA - All-In(Raise) 4,140 to 5,100
LUCKY GREEN - All-In 620
KKASANOVAA - returned (2,800) : not called
*** TURN *** [Qh Kd Jd] 3♥
*** RIVER *** [Qh Kd Jd 3h] 6♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
KKASANOVAA - Shows [10c Ac] (Straight, ten to ace)
LUCKY GREEN - Shows [10h 9h] (Flush, queen high)
LUCKY GREEN Collects 4,840 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot(4,840)
Board [Qh Kd Jd 3h 6h]
Seat 1: KKASANOVAA HI:lost with Straight, ten to ace [10c Ac - P:Ac,B:Kd,B:Qh,B:Jd,P:10c]
Seat 3: FRANCES IVY (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: DALLAS CMSB (small blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 6: JONNY43L (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 7: LUCKY GREEN won Total (4,840) All-In HI4,840) with Flush, queen high [10h 9h - B:Qh,P:10h,P:9h,B:6h,B:3h]
Seat 9: SPOLECAT Folded on the POCKET CARDS



I just had to laugh after that one.

Click to expand...

* Just an update, I ended up coming back, knocked the villain out and won the tourney.

Kasanova King said:

Well, I'm not sure if you read my entire post but we were down to 5 players and I had only about 15 bb left - so yes, in that situation if I don't have the best hand (which from my experience from playing 2+ million hands and 20 years or so would only happen less than 20% of the time, 5 handed) then it just wasn't my time to win the tourney.

At that point being short stacked, there was very little chance of me having a better opportunity to stay alive and possibly double up. 5 handed, top pair aces with a K - 10 kicker is as about as good as it gets with 15 bb left....and to answer your other question, yes, he was a very loose, inexperienced player, IMO He was making calls with 2nd pair the entire tourney and getting super lucky.

Click to expand...

Understood Kasanova, You are right maybe thats why I dont win many tourneys because I cant bring myself to go all in with Ax or Kx when im short handed, But I totally understand what your saying

Re: Post #21

:rock: Congrats on the win & KOing your nemesis Kasanova King!

I had to re-read the hand a couple of times, initially I couldn't figure out why the villian would re-raise & then call your all in after the flop...doh:hmmmm: ...idiot end of the straight. Runner runner flushes are no fun.

BTW, I noticed you're in San Diego...my old stomping grounds...do you ever get out to Barona for live play? I really miss that poker room.

bazerk said:

:rock: Congrats on the win & KOing your nemesis Kasanova King!

I had to re-read the hand a couple of times, initially I couldn't figure out why the villian would re-raise & then call your all in after the flop...doh:hmmmm: ...idiot end of the straight. Runner runner flushes are no fun.

BTW, I noticed you're in San Diego...my old stomping grounds...do you ever get out to Barona for live play? I really miss that poker room.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Yes, I go to Barona probably 1-2 times a month although I would consider Viejas my "home stomping ground casino". Barona is a lot nicer a casino overall and there are less donks there vs Viejas but I can't get away from the Viejas comps. I get $2 per hour at Viejas plus $30 a day in food vouchers.

I do have an great story about Barona though. The very first time I played there about 6 months ago (I moved to SD about 8 months ago) I went there by myself on a Saturday night. I recognized the floor manager at Barona - I would always see him play at Viejas - the guy is a semi - pro and can't play at Barona b/c he works there, so he plays at Viejas regularly.

I asked him how the play was there and he basically told me that the players were better overall but there would be a lot of fish there b/c it was Saturday night. He opened up a new $1 - $2 table and I bought in for the max of $60 (It was the max at the time - it has since been raised to $100).

All I can say is, "Wow, what a table it ended up being!!"

Within an hour I was already up $200 and it just got better and better. I could not believe the over aggression - very readable plays some of the people on table were making - calling 3 and 4 bets with 2nd pair, chaising gut shots to the river, going all in pre-flop with hands like KQ off - WOW, I was in heaven!!!

I ended up leaving about 3 hours later with a full rack of red chips ($500.00) plus my original buy in, tipped out the dealers and cashiers a total of about $50 and I was on my way!! What a great experience!!!

Well, since you authored this thread I suppose this isn't considered a derail .

Yeah, it's been a couple of years since the Barona dealers were allowed to play in their own poker room. I think one of the dealers got upset after a bad beat & ranted @ a customer; the Council nixed dealers playing there anymore, did not represent the casino in a professional manner, even though he was not on duty @ the time.

I think I know which floor mgr/semi-pro player you're talking about, can't recall his name right now, tall (to me anyway since I'm only 5'3") & wears specs? He told me he comes out to Vegas to play the Venetian Deep Stack every once in awhile.

Yeah, Viejas has better poker room comps than Barona but I got my Barona comps from slot play (Diamond for 3 years & then 'downgraded' to Platinum when I started hanging around the poker room ).

I agree Barona has a nicer poker room though...very clean...and the dealers are fab. I also agree the players there are much better overall. I gained a lot of knowledge about live play from the old timers who play during the day. My boyfriend told me not to play with/against them since they're a tough crowd but I guess since I'm a girl they took me under their wings & provided many, many pointers & valuable feedback.

I'm a Limit player in b&ms but I do recall that the NLH games would get pretty wild. Glad to read that you had a great initiation, experience, & CASH your 1st trip there. Their Monday Night Football promo generates a good crowd too (very profitable) but one has to get there early.

Jerry Buss plays there every once in awhile but he plays in the private room. Since Kenny Rogers is the casino's spokesman, he dealt a few hands there one night.

GL whether @ Barona or Viejas, enjoy the spectacular (& consistent) San Diego weather & eat a couple fish tacos for me .