Starting again, advice?

Hey all,

I'm 19, been playing online poker for a year now. Don't want any of your gameplay tips, don't need em. bankroll managment, definately.

Started off really well. Deposited £40 (william hill) and turned it into £350 over 5 days. Then the nighmare began. Not even bad beats, mostly just getting to cocky. I lost that £350 bankroll. Deposited, chased loss, lost, repeat.Ended up £1k down - Self excluded.

Joined full tilt, just didn't like the software/site and lost about £20 - joined poker stars, did well there for a while and ended up £200 up but true to form lost that and ended up £400 down. Sky poker, £40 down.

By this point I had self excluded myself from most poker sites.

Joined Ultimate Bet, I do like that site. However. I was playing a $0.5/$1 table and someone went all in pre-flop when I had a pair of Aces. Naturally I figured it was christmas, so I called him. He had a 7 and a 3.. 7 hit the flop, 7 hit the Turn..

I was livid, and haven't played poker for 3 months now.

I want to go back because I do love the game and I obviously have the capacity to make money, it's retention I seem to have problems with.

Any advice?

Cheers.

Think about quitting for good. Stick with play money

larry4896 said:

Think about quitting for good. Stick with play money

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Why?

There is absolutely no point in playing poker with play money unless you want to practice (and even then, it's an inaccurate appraisal of the nature of the game). I don't want to quit, I enjoy the game and I'm a very tight agressive player, I've made money in the past, I've just got carried away - hence I just need to know how to roll with the poker variance because when I win money - I don't feel true ownership (Not money I staked, it's winnings) I then make bad calls because I'm more pre-disposed to call bluff, then chase the "loss". That's what it is. Viktor Blom lost about as much as me before he hit it right.

Also note, about 40% of those losses were on side games against the house such as blackjack.

I've set deposit limits on UB of £80 a MONTH now, I can't break the bank as I once did, and that's the only decent site I've not self excluded from.

OK mate welcome to the site.
This is probably not what you're going to want to hear but believe me it's solid advice.

Before you make another deposit think and take some time out. Read the strategy articles on here and other site and learn the ****ing game. I'm not trying to be a dick but seriously you may think you know how to beat the game but you don't. Learn then practice, learn again then practice some more.

Post hand histories and develop yourself in to being able to read hands and understanding board textures.

Lastly and most importantly Learn and research as much as you can on bankroll management without this you're dead. Its as simple as that!

Without bankroll management and the understanding of what variance can do to you, you will never stop going busto!

Jagsti said:

OK mate welcome to the site.
This is probably not what you're going to want to hear but believe me it's solid advice.

Before you make another deposit think and take some time out. Read the strategy articles on here and other site and learn the ****ing game. I'm not trying to be a dick but seriously you may think you know how to beat the game but you don't. Learn then practice, learn again then practice some more.

Post hand histories and develop yourself in to being able to read hands and understanding board textures.

Lastly and most importantly Learn and research as much as you can on bankroll management without this you're dead. Its as simple as that!

Without bankroll management and the understanding of what variance can do to you, you will never stop going busto!

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Hey, thanks fellow scouser

I know bankroll managment is what I need.

I rarely call the flop on a hand lower than K10 suited - If I haven't got anything on the flop I'll check or fold. I'm not stupid with my plays, I just "play the game" as it were.

It's the bankroll managment I need.

ScouseSteUK said:

Hey, thanks fellow scouser.

I know bankroll managment is what I need.

I rarely call the flop on a hand lower than K10 suited - If I haven't got anything on the flop I'll check or fold. I'm not stupid with my plays, I just "play the game" as it were.

It's the bankroll managment I need.

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1st off, pick a game you liek playing, whether its a cash game, sng or whatever. Once you have decided on the game you like playing, now comes the hard part. Read up on all the available information on this site on that type of game. For instance if you like cash games there's a load of material and articles here you can catch up on. Then look at some hands in the cash game hand analysis section and learn how hands should be played. You may think you know how to play KTs but you're probably wrong at this point in your poker development. I know it can be boring reading thru articles, but I gaurantee you will go busto again if you don't try.

Jagsti said:

1st off, pick a game you liek playing, whether its a cash game, sng or whatever. Once you have decided on the game you like playing, now comes the hard part. Read up on all the available information on this site on that type of game. For instance if you like cash games there's a load of material and articles here you can catch up on. Then look at some hands in the cash game hand analysis section and learn how hands should be played. You may think you know how to play KTs but you're probably wrong at this point in your poker development. I know it can be boring reading thru articles, but I gaurantee you will go busto again if you don't try.

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Well I only play Hold'em NL.

I'll certainly get studying though

It's just it's quite obvious to me I can actually play poker quite well, I'm just my own worst enemy right now, bull-headded and "all or nothing" - I know that leads to crash and burn.

Tip:

Playing a 50c/$1 table with your roll is suicide.

For cash games you need at least 25-30 buy ins for a particular level. So if you have a $100 roll you prolly should be playing 2nl or 5nl if you think you can get bye on 20 buy ins. Thats assuming your a winning player b/c if you're not then no bankroll management will help you as you will alwyas end up busto.

Jagsti said:

Tip:

Playing a 50c/$1 table with your roll is suicide.

For cash games you need at least 25-30 buy ins for a particular level. So if you have a $100 roll you prolly should be playing 2nl or 5nl if you think you can get bye on 20 buy ins. Thats assuming your a winning player b/c if you're not then no bankroll management will help you as you will alwyas end up busto.

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I know, I play $.10/.20 most often because I feel very comfortable in them (Buy in $10)

I played those tables when I had the winnings I had.

ScouseSteUK said:

Hey all,

I'm 19, been playing online poker for a year now. Don't want any of your gameplay tips, don't need em. Bankroll managment, definately.

Started off really well. Deposited £40 (william hill) and turned it into £350 over 5 days. Then the nighmare began. Not even bad beats, mostly just getting to cocky. I lost that £350 bankroll. Deposited, chased loss, lost, repeat.Ended up £1k down - Self excluded.

Joined full tilt, just didn't like the software/site and lost about £20 - joined Poker stars, did well there for a while and ended up £200 up but true to form lost that and ended up £400 down. Sky poker, £40 down.

By this point I had self excluded myself from most poker sites.

Joined Ultimate Bet, I do like that site. However. I was playing a $0.5/$1 table and someone went all in pre-flop when I had a pair of Aces. Naturally I figured it was christmas, so I called him. He had a 7 and a 3.. 7 hit the flop, 7 hit the Turn..

I was livid, and haven't played poker for 3 months now.

I want to go back because I do love the game and I obviously have the capacity to make money, it's retention I seem to have problems with.

Any advice?

Cheers.

Click to expand...

You say you don't want any game play tips, dont need them. Clearly you do.. no offense. If you're losing deposit after deposit you're a losing player with very bankroll managment. In theory a good player shoulden't have to ever deposit after the first time. I'm not a good player, I'm medcoire but haven't had to deposit in over 5 months or longer..

I think you need to reevalute and just because you're getting lucky and winning some pots/games at first but then losing it, doesn't really mean anything. You need to post some hands and tell us what games you're playing first. You're probarly well out of your league and playing better players for your to lose so much over such a short period of time at various sites.

You need to either make one last final deposit of say a maximum of £20.00 and grind some lowest limits cash games or SnG's and report back. You need a signifianct hand/game sample first though.

I definetly think you should maybe think about looking through the forum for tips because you seem a bit ignornant in thinking you don't need any tips when I think you might well do! Get some books, watch some poker videos and so on and you will see a huge improvment.

goodluck.

ramdeebam said:

You say you don't want any game play tips, dont need them. Clearly you do.. no offense. If you're losing deposit after deposit you're a losing player with very bankroll managment. In theory a good player shoulden't have to ever deposit after the first time. I'm not a good player, I'm medcoire but haven't had to deposit in over 5 months or longer..

I think you need to reevalute and just because you're getting lucky and winning some pots/games at first but then losing it, doesn't really mean anything. You need to post some hands and tell us what games you're playing first. You're probarly well out of your league and playing better players for your to lose so much over such a short period of time at various sites.

You need to either make one last final deposit of say a maximum of £20.00 and grind some lowest limits cash games or SnG's and report back. You need a signifianct hand/game sample first though.

I definetly think you should maybe think about looking through the forum for tips because you seem a bit ignornant in thinking you don't need any tips when I think you might well do! Get some books, watch some poker videos and so on and you will see a huge improvment.

goodluck.

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Really, You can sum my losses up in half a handful of major lapses of judgment at high stakes, not an appraisal of my overall game.

£100 of that was lost on a single blackjack hand too.

ScouseSteUK said:

Really, You can sum my losses up in half a handful of major lapses of judgment at high stakes, not an appraisal of my overall game.

£100 of that was lost on a single blackjack hand too.

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Well none of us can judge your actual game play b/c you haven't posted any hand for us to appraise. What can be inferred from your posts is that your not a good player overall b/c that requires discipline and good brm. You openly admit you gambling your roll on the side with blackjack and taking shots at levels you shouldn't.

Jagsti said:

Well none of us can judge your actual game play b/c you haven't posted any hand for us to appraise. What can be inferred from your posts is that your not a good player overall b/c that requires discipline and good brm. You openly admit you gambling your roll on the side with blackjack and taking shots at levels you shouldn't.

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Yes I know that, I'm not talking about the longevity of my game when I play poker. What I'm saying is I don't appreciate the motif that I'm a weak player by default due to my losses. I get carried away.

I know I'm not good at organising my plays on a grand scale and pinpointing exactly where I am in overall monetary terms. But I think in general, I make good calls, raises and folds and I do actively read the table in every hand. I win big and I loose big. The volitivity of my game is what I need to address.

ScouseSteUK said:

Don't want any of your gameplay tips, don't need em.

Any advice?

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If we are really going to "start again" then we should really start... again.

We can't just erase our previous results and hope to be successful from here on.

We have to assume a beginners mindset of knowing nothing and then learn how to win.

Getting rid of preconceived notions, of what we do and do not need, is a great first step.

ScouseSteUK said:

Yes I know that, I'm not talking about the longevity of my game when I play poker. What I'm saying is I don't appreciate the motif that I'm a weak player by default due to my losses. I get carried away.

I know I'm not good at organising my plays on a grand scale and pinpointing exactly where I am in overall monetary terms. But I think in general, I make good calls, raises and folds and I do actively read the table in every hand. I win big and I loose big. The volitivity of my game is what I need to address.

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I'm not saying you're a bad player. I'm just basically saying you might be thinking you're better than you think you are thus, playing limits higher than you should be. If you can build up a roll for example within a few days but then lose it all it reeks of bad bankroll managment which you say yourself.

However a good winning poker player realises that they shoulden't be playing a limit there bankroll can't handle. If you intend on playing those limits why not deposit $5k +? IF you don't have the funds to do that, then at least drop down to a lower limit and if you think you're as good as you think you're you should no problem be able to build it up to 5k and then be playing the limits you currently are doing, 0.50/1.00? If you lose your roll at a lower limit over the course of a good hand sample then it's obvious you're not cut out at that level and again, drop down until you find a level you can turn a profit. There is no point what so ever playing limits if your bankroll can't handle it so you're wasting your money in the long run.

There isn't much anyone can say if someone is saying their BR managament is bad but aren't willing to change something so simple to cover their losing streaks..

There is getting carried away and there is bad play/BR managment. Every winning player and even break even players understand this..

ScouseSteUK said:

The volitivity of my game is what I need to address.

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Well only you can address that mate, no one on here can help you there. It's a mindset and character thing. There are some players that have really aggressive brm and do well. But for the majority of us its the long haul and about the grind. It's NOT a quick route to $$$, it's a long ****ing grind and thats all there is to it. Install this inot your mindset and you may have a chance at building up a really substantial roll.

Try it out. Play with a 25 buy in when you reach 35 for you next level move up and take a shot, rinse and repeat and if you keep adjusting to the levels and keep learning and discussing HH's then you will succeed. Just try it out!

Self-exclude yourself from the blackjack and other side games.

Get rid of some of your ego, maybe you dont need any tips but maybe you will read or discuss things that open up your mind a little.

Keep some of your ego and believe in yourself (that doesnt sound like an issue here )

Gl mate

A plastic scouser

Practice self control. go to a yoga class for six months and then return to the game. You need more calm playing not better cards.

Swear Engine said:

Self-exclude yourself from the blackjack and other side games.

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^^^ +1

You're 19, and dangerous. Most dangerous to yourself.

I'll assume your general play is reasonable, and your problem is not the play of the cards, but your ego and the execution of the plan.. Your AA example was just a bad beat, but shows us that your expectations are in control, not your executions. An execution is a deliberate action in response to a situation. You make a plan, and you execute that plan. Your ego, and your expectations are clouding the picture your plan requires.

SO at this point, your plan should focus, IMHO, on MINIMIZING losses. Easier said than done. You can never eliminate losses in poker, but you can re-evaluate situations that have caused you pain. We can help if you post HH's (hand histories) on what you thought were correct plays that turned south for you.

Either you need to treat poker as a side biz, or a hobby. If a hobby then you can continue to blow your wad, and not feel too bad about it. If it is a biz for you, then treat it as such. Be methodical, and plan well. Avoid things that derail the plan.

Incidentally, you are probably, being 19, the #1 distraction to your own success. DO NOT take that overly personal. It is a function of age, and old folks will tell you, man after man, after woman, that at 19 they were too self involved for their own good.

The fact that you say your game needs no improvement should be seen as a statement that it does indeed need improvement because you are losing money. The game is bigger than the play of the cards.

Take all these comments constructively. We don't know if you are a Prince Charming or a total asshole. We do care that you care enough to seek advice. And we can help.

OP,

Do you have Hold'em manager or poker tracker? If so post some stats. It would give us an idea of how you play and perhaps help some of the stronger players to help you.

It does sound like a lot of your problems are due to self control but also I suspect that you must have more leaks in your game than you think. I myself am a mediocre player at best and I haven't deposited in over a year now. No disrespect intended but after a large enough sample size you are the player that your results say you are. If you keep going bust, your not that good of a player. You won't get better until you can acknowledge your weak areas.

Good luck.

#1. You won't really know how good you are at poker until you have something like 25,000+ documented hands at a single stake/game that you can look back on.

#2. You won't ever achieve 25,000+ documented hands at a single stake if you don't follow good bankroll management.

I think your true goal is to try to get 25,000+ documented hands in something like poker tracker 3. Setting a goal like this basically insures you follow a good bankroll strategy... because anything contrary to this means you will almost always go bust before 25,000 hands.

Find a good bankroll management strategy and stick to it. After 25,000+ hands, if you are still a losing player while having adhered STRICTLY to your bankroll plan, you obviously have some leaks in your game for the stakes you are playing. If you are showing profit... then good! You are a winning player for the stakes you are at. Stick to the BRM plan you have set for yourself and watch your bankroll SLOWLY, but surely grow.

First: pay your living expenses
Second: Get poker bankroll together.
Third: Put 10% of that bankroll on poker room of your choice.
Fourth: Of the bankroll that you put on line, only play with 5% of that at any one session.
Last but not least: If you lose half of that bankroll, move down a level and do 4 again. And you can't go back up until you get all your original backroll back.
If you bust you can put 10% of your poker bankroll that you still have at home. and repeat all the above steps.
Don't move up until you have quadtripled your original bankroll. Then it's 5% again. 5%, 5% 5%
5% 5% I can't say that enough.

I wrote a few paragraphs then accidentally erased it, lol.

My advice.. change title of thread > 'starting poker'. Lose the ego, work at being open-minded & know that it is VERY COMMON for players to believe they are far better than they really are.

If you put in the work, 3mos. from now you'll look back & laugh at yourself (as I'm sure many... if not 'most' have here before at some point).

"emotions".. .& 'control of emotions' is a big part of playing poker. To quit from 3mos. because of one ridiculously bad beat tells me alot (the beat you've described with AA.. sure it's terrible but for any player who plays regularly they'll be able to list many that are nearly as bad... losing to the 1-outer, 2-outer etc.),... it's how one deals with is part of what can make the difference.

gl on the journey!

This

Jagsti said:

OK mate welcome to the site.
This is probably not what you're going to want to hear but believe me it's solid advice.

Before you make another deposit think and take some time out. Read the strategy articles on here and other site and learn the ****ing game. I'm not trying to be a dick but seriously you may think you know how to beat the game but you don't. Learn then practice, learn again then practice some more.

Post hand histories and develop yourself in to being able to read hands and understanding board textures.

Lastly and most importantly Learn and research as much as you can on bankroll management without this you're dead. Its as simple as that!

Without bankroll management and the understanding of what variance can do to you, you will never stop going busto!

Click to expand...