Should I stop doing this

It's quite simple I'm going to show a hand, and u tell me if i'm playing the hand wrong, or if i'm playing it good, now I know not alot of u are going to say be more aggessive with them build pots with them, and so forth and so on, but my thinking is if we build pots with them then there's no getting away if we get ourselves commited in the hand correct? That's the way I see it, just take a look and tell me if i'm really playing them badly, and i'll also post 2 other hands, exact hand, where I ended up losing but regardless this isn't supposed to be a bad beat thread, it's just to figure out how to play these hands better and fix my leaks

ty all for taking a look at it.
pokerstars Game #19073462953: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/07/24 - 18:04:45 (ET)
Table 'Oceax' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: PIankton ($15.45 in chips)
Seat 2: franky73 ($50.15 in chips)
Seat 3: abdi122 ($73.20 in chips)
Seat 4: Schemeny ($72.05 in chips)
Seat 5: hammston ($9.50 in chips)
Seat 6: George Lawry ($77.70 in chips)
Seat 7: stehay ($58.25 in chips)
Seat 8: phmSo69th ($9.25 in chips)
Seat 9: betterbet88 ($10.75 in chips)
franky73: posts small blind $0.25
abdi122: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [Qs Qc]
Schemeny: raises $1.50 to $2
hammston: folds
George Lawry: folds
stehay: folds
phmSo69th: folds
betterbet88: folds
PIankton: folds
franky73: folds
abdi122: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [6d 7h 8d]
abdi122: checks
Schemeny: bets $3
abdi122: raises $6 to $9
Schemeny: calls $6
*** TURN *** [6d 7h 8d] [3s]
abdi122: bets $62.20 and is all-in
Schemeny: folds
Uncalled bet ($62.20) returned to abdi122
abdi122 collected $21.15 from pot
abdi122: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $22.25 | Rake $1.10
Board [6d 7h 8d 3s]
Seat 1: PIankton (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: franky73 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: abdi122 (big blind) collected ($21.15)
Seat 4: Schemeny folded on the Turn
Seat 5: hammston folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: George Lawry folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: stehay folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: phmSo69th folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: betterbet88 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I did this move because I knew this guy is somewhat loose and figured he'd be more then happy to stack up with Top pair, plus openend draw or JJ or even top pair top kicker some sort of bunk, could I have extracted alot more or was this a good move?

For me you played it just about right, until the point at which you went all in.

I would have just put in a pot sized bet after the river. Theres two fold reason for this.

1) If he does happen to be holding AA KK or even two pair then you are a dead duck and you've thrown every cent in with no way of getting out of it. If hes a loose player he may well have opened with a hand such as 7 8 suited. You would have been royally screwed. He had position on you so therefore had the chance to get out relatively unscathed.

2) If he is holding top pair with perhaps an A kicker then a smaller bet will give him equity to make the call. He may consider calling a lesser amount, but to place in front of him such a huge figure then the alarm bells will be ringing and he would fold.


Of course you could have tried the check raise option but once you do that, if he then checks you get not a cent more from him, so on that basis I personally wouldnt attempt a check raise at that juncture.

3bet to at least $6 preflop and why push the turn?

The reason I pushed on the turn is this player likes to chase, not to mention doesn't really lay down top pair top kicker, so with that, I figured if he's willing to call a raise from me on the flop then I'd figure it's time to put an end to his show and see if he's willing to see that river for that price

WVHILLBILLY, I've got a question what are the precentages of Pair vs Pair, cuz I've got sucked out on so many times by playing preflop aggressivly, with Ladies, so I just wanted to know is it better to constantly bump it up, with these big pairs,and if so, what are the precentages preflop with these type of hands?

naruto_miu said:

The reason I pushed on the turn is this player likes to chase, not to mention doesn't really lay down top pair top kicker, so with that, I figured if he's willing to call a raise from me on the flop then I'd figure it's time to put an end to his show and see if he's willing to see that river for that price

Click to expand...

You want to bet a reasonable amount though so he has the ability to chase. You know he probably will, so instead of pushing in for $62, bet something tricky like $19, if hes a chaser he will call and hopefully he will miss and you just extracted that much more money from him.

Also, raise prefold, calling there is not good most of the time. Bump it up to like $7.

My .02?

Going AI with a Q's here is a good way to lose a lot of money (I do it enough).

KK, AA, sets, two pair and a possible straight. There's just too many ways to get beat. You could have induced the same fold with a much smaller bet, I think, and not risked your entire stack.

Shoving with this hand, I think, is one of these weaknesses of my game.

well he was on a draw of some sort either flush or straight. possibly aq diamonds so i would of stretched another value bet on the turn around 10 to 15 dollars then slammed the river if a brick flys off..

btw at this level of play he does not have KK or AA by the betting patterns and the way the hand played

his range is J10-AQ-A8-AK

no set either he would of let you know on the flop

reraise PF, thats my initial suggestion, only 2 hands beating you there

naruto_miu said:

WVHILLBILLY, I've got a question what are the precentages of Pair vs Pair, cuz I've got sucked out on so many times by playing preflop aggressivly, with Ladies, so I just wanted to know is it better to constantly bump it up, with these big pairs,and if so, what are the precentages preflop with these type of hands?

Click to expand...

Well, if you assign him a range of say Any Pair/AJo+/ATs+/ and maybe all suited connectors down to 78s , which I think is reasonable for a loose UTG raiser, your preflop equity is about 70%. After the flop against the same range your equity actually drops to around 62% (because of all the suited connectors we included in his range) but after the turn your back to around a 70% favorite. That's way too big of an equity advantage to not 3bet preflop (because if an A or K hits the flop your equity plummets). Your also too far ahead on the turn to overbet the pot on the turn trying to "push" your opponent off his hand. All your turn bet does is ensure that your opponent wins your entire stack if he has a monster and let's him off cheaply if he has a hand he would have called a value bet with (in other words your opponent likely won't make a mistake when you push all-in on the turn here).

Uc that's the problem with nice hands like this, because even if u raise at these levels ppl are pretty aggressive from what i've seen so far, so with that being said and done, and u know there going to call u, then the problem with that is if the flop is bad, Most would expect a continuation bet, and some will even reraise, trying to pull a quick one on u, then u've done lost money and all for what? But I see what ur getting at only 2 hands do beat me preflop, AA/KK, and if that happens it's just bad timing on my part

naruto_miu said:

Uc that's the problem with nice hands like this, because even if u raise at these levels ppl are pretty aggressive from what i've seen so far, so with that being said and done, and u know there going to call u, then the problem with that is if the flop is bad, Most would expect a continuation bet, and some will even reraise, trying to pull a quick one on u, then u've done lost money and all for what? But I see what ur getting at only 2 hands do beat me preflop, AA/KK, and if that happens it's just bad timing on my part

Click to expand...

I think you typed in reponse to KD and before reading my response above but I think it's pretty clear from the numbers that you WANT him to call your 3bet preflop. You're usually WAY ahead here. Get your money in as a 70% favorite as much as possible and you'll be a winner long term.

I've been coolerd so many times in the past 2 days, some of them I've brought on myself, but others were god what were u thinking moves. Shit happens I realize this, but really what are the odds of boat over boat and set over set, and set losing to a gutshot, I would show and post all hands, but really it's to much time consuming, one hand I believe I brought it upon myself when I had 33s oop, and tight player raised, so I just called and flop I swear was A/3/4 he raise, pot, I repotted, he pushed, full, 100, ya 4s unreal, but regardless of that what are odds of these type of hands, sry I know I keep changing the topic and adding more questions, but I just want to get better and over all limit my losses, and max my winnings, ty all

I will from now, just play these big hands for what they are, big hands, ty Wvhillbilly

In your set over set example above, there are only 6 realistic hand combos that beat you (we can eliminate 25 just because a tight player doesn't often raise 25 OOP). There are probably 24 combos that you beat, since he's willing to get all-in (all the AK/AQ combos), so you're around a 75% favorite after this flop if we say his range is AQ+/44/AA. You have to get it all in there and if you're beat so be it (I assume proper BRM).

I thought you were the UTG raiser in which case I was gonna say you played it just fine. Then I realized you were the BB. Yes that is pretty awful.

ya that's what happend to me acouple of times, he had set over set, Personally I'm not to much thought process in the BR thing, which is my biggest down fall, I've just started over this time with it, but at the 5/10 penny level and might even drop down, I figured losing close to 1k in about a span of 3 days was enough to tell me that money is not important to some of these players, so I dropped down really hard to a level where I know I make up my loses might take some time but oh well, I had already stated that this was an experiment for me, and even though I lost hard core, I think I think it was a success majority of time I called there bluffs made some moves, and was usually favorite going in, but the beats is what I my Roll couldn't stand only had 2k, playing at that level so ya it was a bad idea but thougt might as well try and see what I could do

What level were you playing with a 2K roll and have you ever proven that you can be a winner long-term (even over say 50K hands) online?

Also I hope if your losing 1K in 3 days money's not important to you. Thing is that if you're properly rolled for the game you're playing you can take you're chances when you're likely the huge favorite and if you lose that hand you just reload and go on to the next one. If you're not ready or properly BR for it you start chasing and spewing $$ all over the place and the cycle repeats. People advocate proper BRM so you won't go broke but I think it's even better at making you money. When you're properly rolled the dollars are never an issue and your able to make the most +EV decisions.

here i had a similar hand and wanted to show you how i extracted as much as i could from this person.. realizing he had a pair when we got to the turn i decided to value bet him along keeping him interested in the hand..

full tilt poker Game #7381318505: Table Lake Mead - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 9:22:11 ET - 2008/07/26
Seat 1: grafgreif ($90)
Seat 2: Gnorbl ($365.20)
Seat 4: paranormal25 ($100)
Seat 5: pkrfface ($61.75)
Seat 6: JCBaggie ($97.95)
Seat 7: utickle igiggle ($241.20)
Seat 8: Marlboroboy ($94.65)
Seat 9: ahn2008 ($35)
JCBaggie has 5 seconds left to act
JCBaggie posts the small blind of $1
utickle igiggle posts the big blind of $2
paranormal25 posts $2
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to paranormal25 [As Ac]
Marlboroboy calls $2
ahn2008 folds
grafgreif folds
Gnorbl folds
pkrfface stands up
paranormal25 raises to $7
pkrfface folds
JCBaggie folds
utickle igiggle folds
Marlboroboy calls $5
*** FLOP *** [7c 9s 8d]
Marlboroboy checks
paranormal25 bets $10
Marlboroboy calls $10
*** TURN *** [7c 9s 8d] [4d]
Marlboroboy checks
paranormal25 bets $20
Marlboroboy calls $20
*** RIVER *** [7c 9s 8d 4d] [Kd]
Marlboroboy checks
paranormal25 has 15 seconds left to act
paranormal25 bets $25
Marlboroboy calls $25
*** SHOW DOWN ***
paranormal25 shows [As Ac] a pair of Aces
Marlboroboy mucks
paranormal25 wins the pot ($124) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $127 | Rake $3
Board: [7c 9s 8d 4d Kd]
Seat 1: grafgreif didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Gnorbl didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: paranormal25 showed [As Ac] and won ($124) with a pair of Aces
Seat 5: pkrfface (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: JCBaggie (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: utickle igiggle (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: Marlboroboy mucked [Th 9c] - a pair of Nines
Seat 9: ahn2008 didn't bet (folded)

I would have thought a raise preflop would have increased the pot and so the bets later would have been larger.