PLEASE post if you think I played this badly

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pokerstars Game #36530405399: Tournament #220754929, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (30/60) - 2009/12/11 1:07:28 ET
Table '220754929 8' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: 8cards (7925 in chips)
Seat 2: GoodWoodRR (1410 in chips)
Seat 3: Tineitor (3425 in chips)
Seat 4: Grossberger (1865 in chips)
Seat 5: moff_rat89 (2690 in chips)
Seat 6: O'Con Sweed (1420 in chips)
Seat 7: DaWarr (3010 in chips)
Seat 8: TampaThunder (5790 in chips)
O'Con Sweed: posts small blind 30
DaWarr: posts big blind 60
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Grossberger [4h 4s]
TampaThunder: folds
8cards: raises 360 to 420
GoodWoodRR: folds
Tineitor: calls 420
Grossberger: calls 420
moff_rat89: folds
O'Con Sweed: folds
DaWarr: folds
*** FLOP *** [5c Ts 3s]
8cards: checks
Tineitor: checks
Grossberger: checks
*** TURN *** [5c Ts 3s] [5h]
8cards: bets 420
Tineitor: folds
Grossberger: raises 1025 to 1445 and is all-in
8cards: calls 1025
*** RIVER *** [5c Ts 3s 5h] [2s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
8cards: shows [7d Ah] (a pair of Fives)
Grossberger: shows [4h 4s] (two pair, Fives and Fours)
Grossberger collected 4240 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4240 | Rake 0
Board [5c Ts 3s 5h 2s]
Seat 1: 8cards showed [7d Ah] and lost with a pair of Fives
Seat 2: GoodWoodRR folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Tineitor folded on the Turn
Seat 4: Grossberger showed [4h 4s] and won (4240) with two pair, Fives and Fours
Seat 5: moff_rat89 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: O'Con Sweed (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: DaWarr (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: TampaThunder folded before Flop (didn't bet)

The guy started calling me an idiot and said I should of folded. I honestly thought after the flop and everyone checking that I had the best hand especially when the 5 came.

So quick poll add your choice to any replies to this post.

Who is the bigger idiot me for pushing with 4's (about 90% sure I had the best hand) or him calling my push on the turn with A 7.

IMO he is the Idiot for raising pf with something he should have folded.

Hehe what a fool - raises A7o 6x BB utg+1 and calls your ai on that board...

What was he hoping for ? runner 7s or As ?
Or did he think you called his intial raise with air / A6- and want to run over him ?

Nah. He tried to take the pot with a bluff and you went allin (I dunno y). Maybe he felt that you were bluffing too and called with A high.
I guess both of you made mistakes here.

There was a hand when I called allin with A high and I felt the bluff well because I won that hand. The opponent was very angry.

Yea. both of you made bad plays here. He should have been folding that hand pre-flop, and DEFINITELY should not have called an all-in from anyone on that board.

As far as your play, I wouldn't have made that move unless I had a really good read on him.

Truthfully here's what I would probably put him on: something like a 10 with a medium to high kicker(A10, K10, Q10, J10, 10-9). That would make some sense for him betting high on the flop to just get everyone out of the hand and pick up the blinds. It would also make sense on the flop because maybe he was wanting to slow play top pair. Then he bet out on the turn when the board paired because the 5 likely didn't help you. This is all just what my thought process would have been going through the hand, I know he obviously didn't have a 10 in his hand.

Regardless of the bad play, you won....

You should of folded that hand PreFlop in my opinion. A guy raises 7x the BB and then you have a caller, you're pocket 4s are looking beat already. Post flop your play was extremely risky unless you have a perfect read on the player, but even after that, it was the wrong time to bluff. If he did call, you didn't have that good of a hand anyways.

Ok I will preface this with the fact I have been at that table with the guy the whole time he started the tournament by pushing all in the first 4 hands finally tripling up on the 4th all in but he raised about every 3 or 4 hands,so thats why I was going to see a flop with 4's and when it came as it did I put him on like AK or AQ since he didnt bet the flop.

lol mate you played it well on that sort of flop id think my 4 4 was the best hand the way he played it. The thing is was the right move to check in case he has a big pair. Then when it was a 5 that was a great card just showing if he had you beat already then he had you crushed now. Your re raise got his money in the pot with the hand that you thought was the best. Well played

Can ask why you play A7 off ... So strongly?

You should learn to fold A rags ....

he was mad at himself and took it out on you and that powerful pair of 4s

You both played that hand pretty badly imo. He played it worse.
Heres my analysis of your play.

1 Preflop - This is a clear fold. In the face of a huge raise and call like that you should fold small pairs especially when it costs a quarter of your stack to call.
2 On Flop - You need to bet here now you're in the hand. Since neither bet, its likely they both have overcards and you have the best hand. By checking you give a free card to both players, to improve to the best hand.
3 On Turn - You don't know where you stand here as he may have a big pair, but I think just calling is correct, and making a decision on the river for the rest of your chips. Assuming hes not an idiot pushing all in will just make hands that have you beat call and worse hands fold. Thats not what happened here as he called with a ridiculous hand, but generally just calling is the best play.

what is a pair of 4s good for 1 thing another 4 if it does not show up what then I love how after we think we know what his hand range is after our bad play pays off the other 80% of the time we just gave money away the only way the 4s are proffitable is if there were callers ahead of you with expected callers after you so that you were getting the proper price to try to hit the set thats not saying I would not have done exactly what you did it just would have been a bad choice over the long haul.Poker is a game of long term decisions and to be proffitable we need to make good ones as often as possible.
ps i said some of that to remind myself

Zorba said:

IMO he is the Idiot for raising pf with something he should have folded.

Click to expand...

And OPs calls isnt stupid when we clearly dont have the right price or implied odds to set mine?

The right place to post this depending if this is ment as anlyses or a silly brag https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/ https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-wins-46/.

Use this http://www.stoxpoker.com/pokertools/handconverter (or any other converter)

Include reads/stats/history if u want any kind of meaningfull replys...

Fold preflop OP. The fact that you know he raises a wide range doesn't make this a call because even if he opens 60% of his hands you're barely better than a coinflip.

sharkyo01 said:

Can ask why you play A7 off ... So strongly?

You should learn to fold A rags ....

Click to expand...

I had the 44 not A7

One thing I did fail to mention was that I played with the guy for some time and when he made this type of raise he never had a pair, when he did have a piar he usually just min raised or standard raised with big pocket pairs. So I was pretty certain he did't have a pair unless at that moment he decided to change gears.

Grossberger said:

One thing I did fail to mention was that I played with the guy for some time and when he made this type of raise he never had a pair, when he did have a piar he usually just min raised or standard raised with big pocket pairs. So I was pretty certain he did't have a pair unless at that moment he decided to change gears.

Click to expand...

44vsATC-PPs
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.884% 58.15% 00.73% 6918225744 87250284.00 { 44 }
Hand 1: 41.116% 40.38% 00.73% 4804361880 87250284.00 { 22, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 82o+, 72o+, 62o+, 52o+, 42o+, 32o }

44vsATC-PPs vs 30% calling range(witch is very wide but put it in to prove a point)

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.642% 37.36% 00.28% 230726713 1722526.33 { 44 }
Hand 1: 14.624% 14.34% 00.28% 88568424 1736616.33 { 22, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 82o+, 72o+, 62o+, 52o+, 42o+, 32o }
Hand 2: 47.734% 47.45% 00.28% 293014691 1755707.33 { 55+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A7o+, A5o, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }


To sum up, u have almost no implied odds because u say villain is opening wide, u have a horrible imitiate price and have to call of almost 1/4th your stack prf and have a hand that is fliping against ATC and only plays well postflop on 4XX boards.

No matter how good a read you make in these spots postflop your still gonna lose alot in the longrun by making these prf calls imo.

OP, please don't try to defend your play when you asked for people to post if they thought you played the hand badly. You did, end of story.

A 7x BB raise preflop with one caller ahead of you means your 4-4 is no good or at best a coin flip. You don't have enough chips to justify set mining. If you felt you were getting short stacked and were ahead of villains range then shove preflop but just calling off 1/4 of your stack is the absolute worst play you could have made.

I lean to the side that you shouldn't have called pre-flop given there was already a caller. One or both them could already have you beat, but given the fact that you said the raiser was going all-in multiple times early on, then I too would put his range as very open and on a T53 flop, I'd feel good that I have him beat. It's hard to play perfect poker, so be happy you won, ignore him and move on.

he wants to kick out you. or he thinks you was lyinig..i sopouse