Officially moving to cash games

Well, i've more or less a SNG specialist until now, and with quite some success, but i think it's time for me to learn how to play cash games properly. So I've nearly finished reading the harrington cash books and ready to go.

Even though I'm rolled for 25NL, my plan is to start at 10NL so I'm well within my confort zone while learning, then move up little by little. Right now I'm 4 tabling 10NL.

One question: given that BRM is not a problem here, how many hands and what kind of BB/100 should I reach at 10NL before moving up ?

6max or FR?

It's difficult to put a winrate on these things or the amount of hands thats deemed relevent. Its all about how you feel. If you have played say something like 30-50k hands and your at something like 5+ptbb/100, then if your roll is sufficient I would look at moving up.

However if you well rolled for 25nl and your looking at gaining a little experience at 10nl, then you may only need 10-20k hands as long as you feel ok with the standard.

Not much help I suppose but it's really a personal thing. GL with it.

Good luck, but if your not a good multi-table player I think your long term goals will be cut out for you.

Jagsti said:

6max or FR?

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FR. I'm used to 9 handed SNGs, so I guess moving to FR ring is less of a strong transition.

Yeah, I'd also like to know what people consider to be a good BB/100.

I'm currently at 10.4 BB/100 at NL(10), but I recently started a new database, so I expect this to come down over time.

Well, i just completed my first 2000 hands at 10NL and it's going fine. A bit over 5 BB/100 but i guess that's not really relevant yet. But the nice thing is that i'm starting to get a good feeling of how to play. Feels nice.

Just took the cash game switch myself, good luck with your quest, looks like you're making some steady gains.

FR cash doesn't tend to be as swingy as say SNG's, but I do miss the whole beating everyone and being the last standing...doesn't really happen in cash

Yeah good luck man, I did the switch on Jan 2 of this year myself after 2 years of just playing SNGs. This site has definitely helped me. I'll be honest, I doubt you can play a consistant game at 10nl on any site. 25nl is pretty consistant at FT and maybe Stars, but when I play it at UB it's like being at the donkey show at the circus. Hopefully we hit the 50nl tables soon and I'll see you there.

Going to switch over to the cash game myself here shortly. GL with that!
Maybe see ya on the tables.

your PTBB/100 won't really be accurate until like 25k hands so i would say that would be a good time to reevaluate

vanquish said:

your PTBB/100 won't really be accurate until like 25k hands so i would say that would be a good time to reevaluate

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Playing 250 hands/hour, as I do playing 4 tables, that would be 100 hours. Not sure I'll have the patience to wait that long...

One issue is that I'm playing on Full Tilt right now, and that means the rake is absurd at 10NL. I've paid about 9 BB/100 in rake so far.

GET OFF FULLTILT, YOU'RE BEING ROBBEDD!!!!

I can't stress that enough, I absolutely love the interface and play, but when it comes to their micro limits the rakes are a slap in the face.

I really like pokerstars (5%? someone correct me) and I'm sure their are other threads showing other sites micro rakes...

good luck!

lol don't play 10nl at FT

Since BR is not the issue I wouldn't waste too much time an 10nl. The step to 25nl isn't much, the rake is easier to beat, and your roll will grow (hopefully not shrink) faster. If you lose a few buy-ins at 25nl step back down but I think I'd start there.

^^^^^ What he said.

Stay at $10NL until you get comfortable with the format. Then move up.

If you start losing, move down.

Oh yeah, and the guide that ChuckTs wrote for his 10k post. It's really good.

Likminutz said:

GET OFF FULLTILT, YOU'RE BEING ROBBEDD!!!!

I can't stress that enough, I absolutely love the interface and play, but when it comes to their micro limits the rakes are a slap in the face.

I really like Pokerstars (5%? someone correct me) and I'm sure their are other threads showing other sites micro rakes...

good luck!

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Well, on the positive side, I have rakeback on FT. But even that way, it's a bit harsh.

I don't have much $ on pokerstars but I guess I could try it out there and transfer from FT to PS if i lose of few buy-ins.

WVHillbilly said:

Since BR is not the issue I wouldn't waste too much time an 10nl. The step to 25nl isn't much, the rake is easier to beat, and your roll will grow (hopefully not shrink) faster. If you lose a few buy-ins at 25nl step back down but I think I'd start there.

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This makes a lot of sense to me.

OK, so my plan for this week is as follows: when I get back from work, play an hour or so at 10NL on pokerstars while datamining Full Tilt's 25NL tables. Then take a break, and come back to play 25NL at FT for the rest of the evening. I do tend to play better later on in my sessions, so the warm up at 10NL should be beneficial.

vanquish said:

your PTBB/100 won't really be accurate until like 25k hands so i would say that would be a good time to reevaluate

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Actually, after 25K hands your winrate could still be considerably off from your true winrate.

Check out this link:
uDevil's Poker Results Calculator

As an example: if you have played 25K hands, your winrate so far is 2.5BB/100, standard deviation 16BB/100, then there's a 90% chance that your true winrate lies between 4.16BB/100 and 0.84BB/100. This however leaves a 10% chance of your true winrate being outside of these values.

A short update on this: I've now played close to 5000 hands at 10NL and I'm currently running at +8ptbb/100, but there are still a few hands I don't like the way I played.

I also played a few sessions at 25NL. The first ones were really bad but the last ones were definitely better.

In terms of poker sites, I'm now mostly playing 10NL on pokerstars as well as 1 table open on bodog. I hate the software there but it's literally like shooting fish in a barrel. The 25NL I play on full tilt.

Jagsti said:

6max or FR?

It's difficult to put a winrate on these things or the amount of hands thats deemed relevent. Its all about how you feel. If you have played say something like 30-50k hands and your at something like 5+ptbb/100, then if your roll is sufficient I would look at moving up.

However if you well rolled for 25nl and your looking at gaining a little experience at 10nl, then you may only need 10-20k hands as long as you feel ok with the standard.

Not much help I suppose but it's really a personal thing. GL with it.

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What do you mean by 10-20k hands ? Played hands?
Isn't it something that takes A LOT of time ?

alophind said:

What do you mean by 10-20k hands ? Played hands?
Isn't it something that takes A LOT of time ?

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Not when you multitable. I play only 8 tables and I've played 9K hands so far this month. Some of these guys play 16 to 20 tables so 20K hands can be just a few sessions.

BTW, how's the cash game experiment going Belgo?

WVHillbilly said:

Not when you multitable. I play only 8 tables and I've played 9K hands so far this month. Some of these guys play 16 to 20 tables so 20K hands can be just a few sessions.

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yeah, i'm not a very heavy multitabler and i often play 500 to 800 hands/hour.

BTW, how's the cash game experiment going Belgo?

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Good.

Cash game summary below