An interesting take on Position

I came across an article by Bob Ciaffone in the book Pot-Limit and No-Limit Holdem (pp 60, 61) which paraphrased says that:-

It is obvious that you want the raiser betting around the table into you and the best position to be in is therefore on the Button. However, what is less obvious is that if someone raises in late position or on the button and others call is that you want to be on the raisers right. This way, if everyone checks to him, his bet will put the others in the middle and you will have the commanding position.

I've not seen much before which doesn't say simply that later is better and its best to be on the button,

Any thoughts?

Steve

Makes sense. I am more likely to make a marginal call when my call closes the betting -- which I think is the same idea. Have to be careful not to get caught in the middle if someone donk bets into the raiser -- but if you have a monster, that could be very lucrative as well!

^^This

Also, if you have a good hand and you check to the raiser, he bets and most call before it's your turn to act, you have a pretty good opportunity to trap some money by 3betting.

If you were to be on the pf aggressor's left, on the other hand, when he bets you can either raise and scare everyone off, or just call and let draws in.

So yeah, it has some merit to it.

I think this should be common sense in the terms of pot odds as well. If the initial raiser makes a standard raise, 3-5x bb, then when many players call you are getting a better price to play from the raisers immediate right.

Your example, like mine, is null and void if you are the only person calling his raise...then it doesn't really matter what position you are in (except that you are oop).

A good thought none the less.

This is the common sqize play. A very useful tool all should have in the toolbox.

I am terribly sorry but can someone explain the paraphrased quote from the OP to me in greater detail. Am I understanding this right? If the raiser is to my immediate left and everyone checks to him, I am in a commanding position because I have a good idea he will continue to raise?

FatCatBamboo said:

I am terribly sorry but can someone explain the paraphrased quote from the OP to me in greater detail. Am I understanding this right? If the raiser is to my immediate left and everyone checks to him, I am in a commanding position because I have a good idea he will continue to raise?

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No, you're in a good spot when you also check to him, he bets, and then you're in the commanding position, because you're last to act after this.

Yeah, kinda like you said it

_dogmeat said:

No, you're in a good spot when you also check to him, he bets, and then you're in the commanding position, because you're last to act after this.

Yeah, kinda like you said it

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Ah I get it, in poker, it's better to be the catcher than the pitcher!

:icon_salu

Can't see this having any real effect though, seeing as the only time that you will enter the pot with the original raiser being on your right is if you limp (which you obviously will never be doing) or in a 3 bet pot when it is highly unlikely that there will be several callers and even if there are the reduced Stack to Pot Ratio means that position has less importance.

Perhaps this situation would arise if you limped in cheap with a mid-pair (say 8s) esp. early in a tournament when everyone has 30 or 40 BB ? Though from previous advice I've had from here I doubt that would be a popular move.

Steve

Still comes down to the same thing, being last to act is an advantage.

For a bit more to think about, the author continues:-

"Note that if you are on the button and the raiser is on your immediate right, your position is actually shaky. If the raiser bets the flop, the bet puts you in the middle. If someone checks a strong hand expecting the raiser to bet, they bag you as well. Sometimes the raiser checks the flop but this is not as helpful with the raiser on your right, as anyone could have checked a busjwacker expecting the raiser to bet.
"Note the huge difference from when the raiser has early position and is first to act and checks and the others also check. In a threeway or fourway pot, the situation is so favourable for a steal it is tempting to fire with any holding.
"The raiser nearly always has missed the flop and decided not to bluff. The others knowing this still do not care to bet, so they are unlikely to have even a modest hand. You will only get called or raised if someone is slowplaying a monster or there is a calling station in the game."

Facinating stuff to me but as Pascal LeFiscal said it ain't gonna happen much.

Steve

Pascal LeFiscal said:

Can't see this having any real effect though, seeing as the only time that you will enter the pot with the original raiser being on your right is if you limp (which you obviously will never be doing) or in a 3 bet pot when it is highly unlikely that there will be several callers and even if there are the reduced Stack to Pot Ratio means that position has less importance.

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The only time it really applies is when you're in a hand with a maniac who is raising/3betting every chance and you're on his right with a hand you want to play against him but not in a 3bet pot. So you're limp/calling with small pairs / broadways / suited Aces (hands that play well against his range of ATC).

Hey, sorry for off topic post but I tried to message you hillbilly, but it said I need 10 posts to message you! WTF? I have to question the logic in that, I mean REALLY is it any less likely that I am an ax murderer or serial killer after I make 7 or 8 more posts here? Geez....
Anyway was just wondering if we are neighbors or live on opposite ends of the state?




My, My Garfield....What BIG eyes you have! :O)

NO_Fluff said:

Hey, sorry for off topic post but I tried to message you hillbilly, but it said I need 10 posts to message you! WTF? I have to question the logic in that, I mean REALLY is it any less likely that I am an ax murderer or serial killer after I make 7 or 8 more posts here? Geez....
Anyway was just wondering if we are neighbors or live on opposite ends of the state?




My, My Garfield....What BIG eyes you have! :O)

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Consider yourself lucky, if your not from WV, you have to have 500 posts before you can message him & 1500 afore he will reply.

Kenzie 96 said:

Consider yourself lucky, if your not from WV, you have to have 500 posts before you can message him & 1500 afore he will reply.

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Point taken, but you still would have to agree even with a million posts, if I was an ax murderer on my first post I would probably STILL be one on my millionth post! LOL



My, My Garfield....What BIG eyes you have! :O)

NO_Fluff said:

Point taken, but you still would have to agree even with a million posts, if I was an ax murderer on my first post I would probably STILL be one on my millionth post! LOL



My, My Garfield....What BIG eyes you have! :O)

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I'm in the eastern panhandle. You?

Dam, there is an echo in every thread I look at....

WVHillbilly said:

I'm in the eastern panhandle. You?

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Central WV near Clarksburg, so we are pretty much at opposite ends (drive time wise that is)! WV roads sure don't travel the "as the crow flies" path! More like as the "snake slithers"!


My, My Garfield....What BIG eyes you have! :O)

Yeah I'm about 2 hours from Morgantown (I go to all the FB games) so you're another ~30min south of there. Always good to have some fine WV folks around so keep posting.