Doug Polk is full of it!

Hello all,

I've spent the last 6 months subscribing to Doug Polk's Upswing Poker online clinic and have gotten absolutely not one ounce of help in my game. I've paid for in depth analysis of online hands and followed his recommendations to the tee.....


I'm still losing. Maybe I fold marginal hands quicker than I used to, but for the most part I fell as though I've been ripped off.


He offers all these bullshit charts for analyzing hands that include all possible opponents ranges pre and post flop. Basically he covers every possible hypothetical hand your opponent "could" have.


Well....I could "guess" just as well for free.

Interesting. I always found him to be entertainment, thats really what he puts out on youtube. His hand analysis is always filled with what I call "poker sophistry". He's an entertainer, can't comment much on Upswing because I've never been to the site.Check out Victor blom latest response to his critics that he doesn't "train" enough. Meaning he's not doin charts, simulations with the solver etc. He says, I get better by playing! He doesn't mess with training site tools.

I'd be pissed too if I wasn't the winner of the WSOP after 6 months of learning.

totally agree with you all that you offer on a paid basis associated with online poker in most cases cheating you can predugadat all positions personally think that online poker is 90 percent luck decides everything

if you buy an online course you should understand that 95% of your success depends only on your work to increase your level of poker ...

Sounds like you might not be using the information you got, correctly.

I do not think so, you can not take the poker strategy in such a short time ... You'll need a lot of work, a lot of hands, a lot of games played by the parties, and it can also help you and you can watch the big poker masters, to see how they do it can also help you...

in 6 months you can learn a ton of techniques, but learning how to apply them in different situations takes years.

Personally i wouldn't buy any poker course not because they are a rip off but because i would rather invest time learning on my own. What works for Doug Polk wont necessary work for you and you specific situation.

What,s the point to pay money for poker lessons , if all this information you can find for free in poker books or on youtube you can see thousands of poker videos.

Considering I know a few people who took the Upswing course, i can only say that it only taught them about math part of the poker. If a player was to follow those charts in the very long run, should be on the + side of the game.
BUT, it doesn't tell anyone how to maximize on those charts, what hands to mix in, how to behave in unfamiliar situations. If you look at hands Doug played (you can find tons on YT), it is obvious he doesn't follow his own charts completely. He mixes in hands, positions, I will guess mostly based on opponents and reads.

So, don't take online courses for granted, they are not some huge money bringers on their own, it is just tons of advices that should help you in your game..

Question - you say you are still losing, are you losing as much or have you seen no difference at all?

Doug Polk has lost about 2 million dollar on cash games according to highstakesdb ....ask him next time. Poker is highly situational, i'v played hundred thousands of hands never played the same hand even once.

he plays very badly indeed

The increased amount of training materials online has led to a massive overall improvement in standards. This is particularly so at NLHE.
Edges are now really small and completion of one training course does not guarantee making you a winner.
You have to keep working and put in significant volume if you want to turn your edges into profit.
Some of Polk's recommended weak 3bet hands are imo definitely suspect.
For example if you are polarising your 3betting I don't recommend using his suggested small suited 64 75 type hands. Typically they only have 20% equity when called. You should use suited kings and Queens which can still out flop a hand that will call a 3bet like 88-JJ with around 30% equity. Over time that extra 10% will add up.
Generally most of the material I've seen from him is sound especially the post flop stuff.

No two people play the same and different things work for different people.

It took many years for pros to be where they are, you dont see anyone watching 2 or 3 videos, memorizing a chart or two then winning instantly. For some people it has taken years of playing and studying before something clicks and they start winning, after losing for years.

Something to understand from coaching is that its not an exact science and there is no way for you to ever know exactly what a pro was thinking, most are reviewed hands and simplified quick explanations.

We can have multiple thoughts at once and instantly, so when a player or coach does hand analysis live or during a review, they are merely guidelines to get you, the player, thinking about your own lines and understanding different ways of thinking, rather than WHAT to think exactly, HOW to think is a more proper explanation.

Alot of people dont want to consciously think about ranges during a hand or analyze each street cause it can be mentally exhausting and its easy to say ill never learn that.

Everyone starts somewhere and it depends how much youre willing to put in. Not just reading and watching, but also be willing to question options made by a player, even if its your favorite poker player.

Link to Victor Bloom's quote?

Dont forget to reload.

each teacher teaches on his own and what he can do another will do differently is only the Foundation


watch what table.aggressive or tight.and to expand or reduce your range by a particular person..
and then to analyze which hands you feel comfortable and profitable to play in a given situation

Has any1 else got 1? I was thinking to buy one but it would be nice to see a few reviews.Is all you get for your money some charts?
Does any1 know what you get coz he's selling his tournament strategy for $800 or somthing.
I know he needs a lot of hair gel but come on doug!
Jokes aside I love his videos.

I've spent the money and taken the course. Much of it is devoted to the strategy of playing small pairs post flop.

Honestly, it's not worth the money.

Wow!! First, Let me say I am not a member of Upswing lab, If I was going to try and make a living just from poker I would definitely be a member of some poker site. Why?? Because, I believe the best way to improve and the quickest way to improve is to be able to discuss your play with people who are better and playing higher limits than you are right now.

All the kids who made it to the top, either cash games or tournaments, will say the way they learned the most and the fastest is because they hung out together and talked poker for hours. I think a training site can give you a group of people to learn with and from. I believe that Upswing's principles are sound, the O.P. talked as if he had a personal course with Doug?? Upswing is not even set-up that way, Ryan Fee creates just as much content as Doug has. Both Ryan and Doug are definitely winning players at high stakes. even though people love to hate Doug.


Tonka has joined the team and is giving some content for tournament play, Jnandez is handling the PLO stuff. It is a business with very good poker players. If you think you are going to pay for 6 months membership and PRESTO you will be a winner, do not join. Poker does not work that way.


Geez, Upswing should pay me for this. HaHa, actually I belong to a couple of free sites where guys discuss hands and I post hands here as well. That is how I think I have improved! Much more work needs to be done. I wonder if the O.P. uses equilab or pokerstove?? How much work does he do off the tables. Much easier to say Doug sucks or Phil sucks (Galfond) has a training site also.

Poker is a much more difficult game now, because of the free content and the training sites. If you think you want to become a winning player, be prepared to improve, that's all for now

Doug Polk is nothing but a poser. He's all talk and no show. ANYONE can KNOW what to do, DOING it is a different story. He wouldn't be selling subscriptions and stuff if he was actually any good at poker himself (profit wise).

I'm charting everything online. My live game play obviously cannot be charted. In 6 handed play my ROI has increased by 12% while my heads up ROI has decreased by 3%. Not sure why.

He won the 1 drop for 3.7 million and 2nd in an online tourney for 700k and another deep run while streaming just this year. HaHa, he is easy to hate I know but his results speak for themselves.

Thank you for posting your experience with the online course. What a difference between what you are saying and all those testimonials they put on the training sites lol

i visited only once the upswing site and read an interesting article there about tells. i guess you shouldn't judge doug because of your results. charts do not make you a winning player, it takes much more invested time into the game. also, his youtube videos are quite informative and you get enough information for free. i wouldn't have payed for upswing charts just because talking about ranges and balancing them is much more important, knowing a chart makes you 1% better.

Exactly what I was thinking..

I personaly think that you dodnt need a too deep strategy course so fast i wood have exersize with something simple to practice like basics pot odds, equity,bluff spots, and after go for some pro analysis. But its just my opinion.

all the training in the world does do shit if you run bad

Doug’s course is aimed at recreational players like ourselves. He himself isn’t playing micro/small stakes too often anymore. Pros play on a different level of deception usually making their style must looser but with lots of strategy. Learn the math and basic strategies, and slowly you’ll build up better plays over time to complement your playing style.
Ps. Just looking at the math isn’t going to improve your game in the long run. You need to study the shit out of it until you know all the math on the fly, in real time, as that’s the only time that matters.