What the fudge am I doing wrong (in low stakes cash games)?

A

Al Vargas

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Brief and to the point...new to the online poker scene (very new). Went ahead and played in as many freeroll tourneys as I could find this past long weekend. I basically celebrated Poker'sgiving this year.

Shockingly (talking really shockingly cause I haven't played poker in ages), placed ITM 3 times (prizes: $1, $.75, & $1.10). After every encouraging placing, I have promptly gone to the cash .01/.02 tables and blown all my meager winnings away.

I'm thinking maybe too small of a sample size and I'm getting unlucky. Maybe my bankroll isn't big enough to catch those few big hands. Maybe...I'm playing too tight (I get really tight at the cash tables - i put sweat into winning those few pennies).

I guess I'm partially venting, partially asking for a bit of wisdom. Any advice is welcome.
 
Kaneohegrl

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I'm with you, Al...

I'm really in no position to give you advice, especially not seeing the sessions you've played - however, it sounds like you might have had some carry-over from "freeroll madness" (my own term for the differences in the tables and the way they are typically played) and simple variance. You probably had a couple of bad beats, too. Moreover, I could have written what you did - word for word. My answer to my own situation is increasing the time I spend reading and watching videos about the type of sessions I intend to play. Have you spent a lot of time reading about strategy? Cardschat has some great articles, but there are tons of other sites, too. I'm enjoying Pokerology, for example. However, if you're playing tight-aggressive in position in your micros and reading the board texture and paying attention to the patterns of your competitors, I'd really consider that variance has a lot to do with it.

Hopefully, someone with a lot more experience in online poker will answer your question... I just couldn't leave you hanging out there alone when I so feel your pain! Good luck, Al! :cool:
 
Aces2w1n

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stay where your winning?

switching games is like starting fresh again.

poker has a way of giving everyone a chance to win and thats why its so enticing.

have to work hard to win longterm in this game.
 
DougPkrMonsta

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Brief and to the point...new to the online poker scene (very new). Went ahead and played in as many freeroll tourneys as I could find this past long weekend. I basically celebrated Poker'sgiving this year.

Shockingly (talking really shockingly cause I haven't played poker in ages), placed ITM 3 times (prizes: $1, $.75, & $1.10). After every encouraging placing, I have promptly gone to the cash .01/.02 tables and blown all my meager winnings away.

I'm thinking maybe too small of a sample size and I'm getting unlucky. Maybe my bankroll isn't big enough to catch those few big hands. Maybe...I'm playing too tight (I get really tight at the cash tables - i put sweat into winning those few pennies).

I guess I'm partially venting, partially asking for a bit of wisdom. Any advice is welcome.

Sounds like you already have a reasonable understanding of tournament strategy if you are making it deep in some freeroll tournaments. If you enjoy playing tournaments I would stick to them, read some books like Harrington on Hold'Em, and watch some videos or Twitch streamers playing tournaments.

If you want to play cash tables you will need a whole different strategy than how you play your tournaments. You will also need a bigger bankroll than a few freeroll cashes if you want to play long-term (since stacks are deeper and you can lose a lot more than just your tournament buy-in when things go bad!)

I think everyone has thrown away some freeroll winnings now and then, gambling to try to build a bankroll, but eventually they find what they enjoy playing and stick there. MTT's and cash games are two very different skills, short stack play versus deep stack play.

Hope this helps - good luck to you! :D
 
I

iFishForFlush

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Try running up a higher BR from freerolls, I'm doing the same thing atm for my BR challenge, aiming for $20 to start. Be sure to follow strict BR management, and don't be afraid to play the game.
 
strodawg

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I look at online poker different from table poker

Brief and to the point...new to the online poker scene (very new). Went ahead and played in as many freeroll tourneys as I could find this past long weekend. I basically celebrated Poker'sgiving this year.

Shockingly (talking really shockingly cause I haven't played poker in ages), placed ITM 3 times (prizes: $1, $.75, & $1.10). After every encouraging placing, I have promptly gone to the cash .01/.02 tables and blown all my meager winnings away.

I'm thinking maybe too small of a sample size and I'm getting unlucky. Maybe my bankroll isn't big enough to catch those few big hands. Maybe...I'm playing too tight (I get really tight at the cash tables - i put sweat into winning those few pennies).

I guess I'm partially venting, partially asking for a bit of wisdom. Any advice is welcome.

I feel as if there is a certain way the card generator works so i literally play against that over the people. I have watched all in after all in forever now. I see the most ridiculous pre flop all ins to showdown. and it always seems like the cards are pulled in direction on small stackes vs large stack. I been large stack get AK lose to 24 off to many times. So I have been trainning myself to try to get to the river cheap as possible and no preflop all in calls. Depending what position and how many folders up to me I can push all in but no more callings. hope this helps some how
 
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braveslice

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Do you know what a) what hands to open in each position? b) what hands to call 3bet? c) when to fold to raise? d) what hand is considered strong compared to tourneys

Also tourney style is quite different.
 
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braveslice

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Well just some hints not that serious but a bit serious b) AK, QQ c) always d) quads

However, this doesen't translate to not betting value thin. Top pair top kicker is 3streets value even in scary board, but when you face a raise it's insta fold usually, even if it does not make sense.
 
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Not really enough information on your post.

Are you using sound, solid poker strategy, or something else? It's also way too small a sample size.
 
es530

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Read some banking control articles if you're not using them, and learn what's recommended, so you can do a deeper analysis of your game.
For what good is having 10 dollars and playing games of 1 dollar with 10 shots is almost certain to break, making it impossible to do a real analysis. Eu for example I really like the recommendation of 100 buy-in because if you can break, playing Form ruled with 100 buy-in you can know that your game is not solid, without having to look historical. Good luck.
 
A

Al Vargas

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I'm really in no position to give you advice, especially not seeing the sessions you've played - however, it sounds like you might have had some carry-over from "freeroll madness" (my own term for the differences in the tables and the way they are typically played) and simple variance. You probably had a couple of bad beats, too. Moreover, I could have written what you did - word for word. My answer to my own situation is increasing the time I spend reading and watching videos about the type of sessions I intend to play. Have you spent a lot of time reading about strategy? Cardschat has some great articles, but there are tons of other sites, too. I'm enjoying Pokerology, for example. However, if you're playing tight-aggressive in position in your micros and reading the board texture and paying attention to the patterns of your competitors, I'd really consider that variance has a lot to do with it.

Hopefully, someone with a lot more experience in online poker will answer your question... I just couldn't leave you hanging out there alone when I so feel your pain! Good luck, Al! :cool:

Spent a lot of time reading relevant poker material in the past when it was easier to play poker online as a US player.

Since returning to the game, haven't dedicated half as much time as I should be to the reading and learning part of it...I will once I have the time. Its harder now that I'm no longer a college student who had an unhealthy amount of free time.

Good to know someone can relate though! Makes me feel a little bit less frustrated here.
 
A

Al Vargas

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stay where your winning?

switching games is like starting fresh again.

poker has a way of giving everyone a chance to win and thats why its so enticing.

have to work hard to win longterm in this game.

As much as I think I'm switching my playing style, its very possible some of that tourney mentality is carrying over. I know the second I have less than 10 BB, I'm already thinking "gotta find a good hand to go all in with." Which is likely a horrendous cash game mindset even if my freeroll bankroll is dwindling
 
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bkr3026

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In the cash games the players at low stakes definitely do not respect bet sizes and are willing to goall in in circumstances that they would definitely not at higher stakes. you might want to stack up a couple of those winnings and wait till you can get to a tad bit higher of a stake to play.
 
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braveslice

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I know the second I have less than 10 BB, I'm already thinking "gotta find a good hand to go all in with."

I hope you are not saying your stack in cash games falls this low?
 
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Al Vargas

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In the cash games the players at low stakes definitely do not respect bet sizes and are willing to goall in in circumstances that they would definitely not at higher stakes. you might want to stack up a couple of those winnings and wait till you can get to a tad bit higher of a stake to play.

Probably a good call. Definitely going to use this advice. I was unrealistically thinking I could take a dollar to the cash tables and grow from there. Very silly of me.

I'll stick to the freerolls for a while and head back to the cash games once I can get a few winnings pulled together into a healthy micro stakes bankroll
 
A

Al Vargas

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I hope you are not saying your stack in cash games falls this low?

I am indeed saying that lol

Have yet to deposit anything. But have placed ITM in a few freerolls. Nothing significant, just a dollar here and there. Instead of saving, I've been immediately going to the cash tables to blow it away.

So basically been buying into tables at the min of .40. Realizing I'm either being forced all in cause I have no stack strength or blinding out looking for a perfect hand. Next time i will save some of these winnings and return to the cash games with a more reasonable bankroll. I have much to learn obviously =]
 
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chronical

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I'm not sure what to say... maybe post a few most loosing/winning spots or something.
maybe you caught a cooler after all loosing thу buyin is not something that will not happen. For exmp. my biggest leak was slowrolling JJ+ too much and giving my ops with bad hands too many free outs? maybe you;ve got something similar?
 
Dorugremon

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Shockingly (talking really shockingly cause I haven't played poker in ages), placed ITM 3 times (prizes: $1, $.75, & $1.10). After every encouraging placing, I have promptly gone to the cash .01/.02 tables and blown all my meager winnings away.

This was your big mistake right there. You should have accumulated the freeroll winnings. $2.85 isn't even two buys at 2NL. You need a starting 'roll of at least $20.00 for those stakes. $1.00, $0.75, and $1.10 aren't even full buys. You don't want to be short stacked on any NL game, as you make yourself a target for bigger stacks.

I'm thinking maybe too small of a sample size and I'm getting unlucky. Maybe my bankroll isn't big enough to catch those few big hands. Maybe...I'm playing too tight (I get really tight at the cash tables - i put sweat into winning those few pennies).
Way too little of a sample size.

I guess I'm partially venting, partially asking for a bit of wisdom. Any advice is welcome.
No helpful wisdom as I have never played so small. What would help is posting hand histories. Just saying you "play tight" doesn't mean much without some specifics.
_________________________________

Nonsense!

I feel as if there is a certain way the card generator works so i literally play against that over the people.

Major mistake right there. The RNG wasn't programmed to persecute lil' ol' you out of the tens of thousands of players. It isn't done; it isn't possible.

I have watched all in after all in forever now. I see the most ridiculous pre flop all ins to showdown. and it always seems like the cards are pulled in direction on small stackes vs large stack. I been large stack get AK lose to 24 off to many times.
Two words: Confirmation Bias. Yes, incidents where something ridic out-flops a much stronger hand tend to stick in the memory. How many times have you seen (AK) smack down (24) and don't remember when it happened? Play long enough and you are guaranteed to see some of the damnedest things happen. That's purely by chance and not because there's something shady going on with the RNG.

So I have been trainning myself to try to get to the river cheap as possible and no preflop all in calls. Depending what position and how many folders up to me I can push all in but no more callings. hope this helps some how
So you're a nut scared nit? I love playing your type. You could save both of us a lot of time: just hand me your stack as soon as you see me join the table.
 
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braveslice

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I am indeed saying that lol

Have yet to deposit anything. But have placed ITM in a few freerolls. Nothing significant, just a dollar here and there. Instead of saving, I've been immediately going to the cash tables to blow it away.

So basically been buying into tables at the min of .40. Realizing I'm either being forced all in cause I have no stack strength or blinding out looking for a perfect hand. Next time i will save some of these winnings and return to the cash games with a more reasonable bankroll. I have much to learn obviously =]

I’m afraid here no-one is specialized for that short stack play. In 3 years in poker I have never seen anywhere beginner level short stack play tutorials. Even though it’s mentioned many times, the actual learning and tutorials are very thin.

Also from theoretical standpoint, it’s possible that it’s not even possible to play winning poker in very short stacks due blinds. If it is, I would imagine it’s shoving around 30% of the time. Something you don’t even want to learn for the long run.

So save until you have at least one stack, quit around 80bb and wait more money. Or learn short stack style, remember that the game alters every time your stack size changes and you need to put lot of effort to learn it all. Something you don’t want to do, so keep it simple and one size:
https://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/sss/what-is-short-stack-strategy/1/
 
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maybe try playing some super cheap SNGs and run it up that way till you can lose a buyin or two at micro cash. the sng structure will feel more familiar and usually micro sngs are very soft.
 
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braveslice

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maybe try playing some super cheap SNGs and run it up that way till you can lose a buyin or two at micro cash. the sng structure will feel more familiar and usually micro sngs are very soft.

Yes, check these out. If you like them, problem solved.
 
John A

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Grab polished poker... it's free. It will help you understand how to beat these online games. Join some study groups. Post some hands in these forums here.

Sure fire way to become a better player.
 
A

Al Vargas

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Thanks for the advice all. Very helpful for sure 👌
 
Aaron Soto

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Get real buddy. 1 penny 2 penny blinds LMFAO? Dude why even waste your time? Time is money in my world. C'mon now man.

At least at minimum! Play in the 5 cent / 10 cent games and go from there. Online Poker is tricky. And the players can be tricky as well.

When you make a big hand. Do not be afraid to bet it. Bet big. When that little voice tells you your beat chances are it's right. Don't waste time on such a low stake game.
 
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braveslice

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Aaron, with the same logic one should start from NL100, because honestly who consider 10 dollars and NL10 even close being enough moneywise?
 
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