Trying to optimize the Blind Defense

#1 December 23rd, 2019, 12:32 AM

Hello there CardsChat community! I would like to know if I am overplaying recreational players. Here are some examples of hands that I played almost, if not totally unbalanced either Flop, Turn or River versus recreational ones.
Sometimes I think that I am playing as a recreational myself. Let me know your ideas, and please, anything about Big Blind and Small Blind defense, ideias, comments, critics, articles, thoughts, etc I would love to read it.

1) Full Ring: BB defense vs Recreational MP:
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324hgRyWA

2) 6-MAX: BB defense vs Recreational SB
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324r8gs8P

3) 6-MAX: BB defense vs BTN Raisor and SB caller
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324mfmOdq

4) 6-MAX: BB defense vs CO raisor and SB caller
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324mfxrmW (I believe I played this one very bad)

5) �6-MAX: BB defense x SB
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324r8eYgP

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

#2 December 23rd, 2019, 6:02 PM

Originally Posted by Aballinamion

Hello there CardsChat community! I would like to know if I am overplaying recreational players. Here are some examples of hands that I played almost, if not totally unbalanced either Flop, Turn or River versus recreational ones.
Sometimes I think that I am playing as a recreational myself. Let me know your ideas, and please, anything about Big Blind and Small Blind defense, ideias, comments, critics, articles, thoughts, etc I would love to read it.

1) Full Ring: BB defense vs Recreational MP:
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324hgRyWA

2) 6-MAX: BB defense vs Recreational SB
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324r8gs8P

3) 6-MAX: BB defense vs BTN Raisor and SB caller
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324mfmOdq

4) 6-MAX: BB defense vs CO raisor and SB caller
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324mfxrmW (I believe I played this one very bad)

5) �6-MAX: BB defense x SB
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324r8eYgP

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Thank U 4 Posting.

Your plays are fine as long as your reasons for playing them is correct.

In hand 4 you over shove river the same way as you had in other hands but why?
In this hand villain can put you on the K. Your check turn-shove river screams K. If the river is an ace you could shove if villain leads but a check by villain means we are targeting a weaker range. So we bet smaller hoping villain has the Q and thinks we are chopping.

So if you are thinking about why you are over betting great. Are you?
Hand 4 says maybe you are not thinking enough.

Hope this helps
Trying to optimize the Blind Defense

#3 December 23rd, 2019, 6:31 PM

I'm curious. Are you always this lucky? I don't usually get much playable in the blinds and rarely hit flops like you do. It's usually tough playing out of position. The flops aren't usually that good for me. Chasing flushes IS usually a great way to burn chips for me. But when you've got luck on your side, go for it I guess.

My advice - keep doing what you're doing till your luck runs out.

BTW - all players at NL2 are recreational.

#4 December 23rd, 2019, 8:11 PM

Originally Posted by MattRyder

BTW - all players at NL2 are recreational.

Not entirely true, there is actually 1 guy on Stars 8 tabling nl2-nl5 Zoom for a living who refuses to move up. Not entirely sure what the story behind this is....

On the Hands: I think you played fine no mistakes in my opinion. Alltough I'd say that these were pretty standard spots. Post some closer ones :P

#5 December 23rd, 2019, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by eetenor

Thank U 4 Posting.

Your plays are fine as long as your reasons for playing them is correct.

In hand 4 you over shove river the same way as you had in other hands but why?
In this hand villain can put you on the K. Your check turn-shove river screams K. If the river is an ace you could shove if villain leads but a check by villain means we are targeting a weaker range. So we bet smaller hoping villain has the Q and thinks we are chopping.

So if you are thinking about why you are over betting great. Are you?
Hand 4 says maybe you are not thinking enough.

Hope this helps
Trying to optimize the Blind Defense

Hey eetenor thanks for your analysis. I really appreciate it, it is very good for my game improvement. Now, hand 4 I am not always calling down a 3x raise just because the SB called too. My calling frequency here is very short, and I also 3bet this KTs some times to balance my range.
Against Late Position raisors, I elect to wide a little bit my calling and 3betting range. Most of times they are the same: The same hands that I flat I could also be 3betting.
Preflop I have odds of 4.5 to 1, which is very good, because both players (CO raisor and SB caller) are 100 BB Effective Stack.
The action in the Flop is very weird, and normal from the player in the CO, but most of times I am not chasing flushes, gutter, OESDs, etc without proper odds: When the Raisor in the CO bets 1/3 pot against two players he is mostly trying to make the trashes from the SB and BB to fold. The problem comes when the SB player re-raises to Pot the CO raisor out of position versus two players.
The SB is telling everybody a lie: because when SB raises 100% pot, OOP x 2 players, it is representing AA, KK, QQ, KQ or a strong draw. However, we in the BB block most of Kx combos that SB could have right now, so, SB has QQ, or AQ, or QJ or AA. (and bluffs and hands that should not be firing here). I thought the SB player was a recreational one for this move is damn bad.
So, for all of these reasons I am calling here. I saw no reason for raising in the flop, otherwise I could be turning a strong value hand into a bluff. In the Turn I checked to try to induce more bluffs from the SB, but she/he doesn't bet the River.
According to my reading at the time the hand was played, SB was a recreational so I thought she/he could be calling down with a lot of worse hands here, but there wasn't too much: Only Qx, QQ, JJ and AA could be calling a shove. And you are right, when I do that I am screaming that I have a Kx in my range.
You are very right: a smaller bet in the river could induce even more bluffs from a Qx, QQ, Jx and AA. Or a call which also would be profitable, considering BB defense. (We don't see many recreational players folding a Full House in spot like this). IT is more likely that the SB tried to buy the Pot by showing power in its Check-Raise Flop. As long as the bluff didn't pass, it seemed that SB turned off the hand.
I still have some doubts if this call is probitable, this is why I thank you for your comment eetenor.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

#6 December 23rd, 2019, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Aballinamion

I still have some doubts if this call is probitable, this is why I thank you for your comment eetenor.

What call are you referring to specifically? The defend itself? Or the call on the flop?

#7 December 23rd, 2019, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by MattRyder

I'm curious. Are you always this lucky? I don't usually get much playable in the blinds and rarely hit flops like you do. It's usually tough playing out of position. The flops aren't usually that good for me. Chasing flushes IS usually a great way to burn chips for me. But when you've got luck on your side, go for it I guess.

My advice - keep doing what you're doing till your luck runs out.

BTW - all players at NL2 are recreational.

Hello there MattRyder thanks for your comment. Lol, I am not always this lucky, I was just trying to see if I am playing way too passive from the blinds (If I should be 3betting light some combos as QTs, KTs for example versus LP players).
At the time, I was addicted for flushes, thanks again for it, because indeed it is a huge way of burning chips away. Today I am only chasing flushes when I have the proper odds, or when I see that the Turn/River helped me in a way that I might overplay my opponents and take the pot.
I will not keep doing what I am doing, this is why I ask for everybody for advice.
Do you have more advices about blinds defense?

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

#8 December 23rd, 2019, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Luepso

Not entirely true, there is actually 1 guy on Stars 8 tabling nl2-nl5 Zoom for a living who refuses to move up. Not entirely sure what the story behind this is....

On the Hands: I think you played fine no mistakes in my opinion. Alltough I'd say that these were pretty standard spots. Post some closer ones :P

Hello there Luepso good to see you here again my friend! How you doing? By the way, happy holidays for you and your family!
I will look it up in my Hold'em Manager history to see if I find more hands played from the SB and the BB, more harder spots. I agree, these are very easy ones (when we hit monsters).

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

#9 December 23rd, 2019, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Luepso

What call are you referring to specifically? The defend itself? Or the call on the flop?

Oops, sorry Luepso, I did not express myself clearly. Actually, I am in doubt it the Preflop call was right and if the Flop call was right as well. I didn't have too much sample on these guys this is why I decided to call. Would you be 3betting 2 strangers here or folding a decent hand with a good "flopability"?
In the Flop, the call is okay? Or we can fold/3bet here sometimes? Thanks again!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

#10 December 23rd, 2019, 10:24 PM

I personally don't see any major mistakes, you are using an exploitative play which is perfect for low stakes.
But I will provide my opinion on the hands.

1) Full Ring: BB defense vs Recreational MP:
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324hgRyWA

Folding preflop might be the most standard play but you have great pot odds to see a flop, so not a bad call pre.
On the flop you can consider donking because your range hits that board a lot, but checking with either calling or raising in mind is also fine.
On the river I see a pot size bet or a slight overbet to be the ideal sizing, but your shove worked out so maybe your line is superior.

2) 6-MAX: BB defense vs Recreational SB
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324r8gs8P

This hand played itself mostly.
If I would do something differently it would be to check raise the flop.
Villain 4x-d pre so their range contains a lot of KQ/AQ/AK pocket pairs and hands that have equity against our holding or dominate us on showdown.
A raise on the flop with betting the turn will make most of those fold even if we don't hit the flush.
Your play is good for pot control though.

3) 6-MAX: BB defense vs BTN Raisor and SB caller
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324mfmOdq

As standard as the gravity formula.
Maybe a 3bet once in a while to win the pot pre, but OOP it's better to just call and set mine.

4) 6-MAX: BB defense vs CO raisor and SB caller
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324mfxrmW (I believe I played this one very bad)

I believe you did play this one badly on the turn.
You should have bet turn to increase the pot size and try to get the stacks in on the river.
If you had any form of straight draw or Qx you would've bet the turn.
Your check back to a thinking villain indicates more strength than weakness.
On the river I would go for a 70% pot size bet because I don't believe a ton of Qx will call any form of an overbet but I could be wrong.

5) �6-MAX: BB defense x SB
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324r8eYgP

I would go for a check on the turn instead.
We are only getting value from his exact holding and 78s, while flush draws can check raise us and make our life a hell.

#11 December 23rd, 2019, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Aballinamion

Oops, sorry Luepso, I did not express myself clearly. Actually, I am in doubt it the Preflop call was right and if the Flop call was right as well. I didn't have too much sample on these guys this is why I decided to call. Would you be 3betting 2 strangers here or folding a decent hand with a good "flopability"?
In the Flop, the call is okay? Or we can fold/3bet here sometimes? Thanks again!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Hey Carlos, thank you and all the best for you and you're family aswell.

OTH: I think it's a defend for sure. I don't like the idea of 3betting this hand because it plays to good postflop. I would either 3bet way stronger or way weaker hands (as bluffs).

On the flop call is the best play imo. You could raise KT for protection on a scary Turncard but on the flop he is capped. His range most likely consists of Qx, Pockets or bluffs. From time to time he will also have a King but if he has one it will most likely be a stronger one. So I really like to "just" call.

#12 December 23rd, 2019, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by xrhstos

I personally don't see any major mistakes, you are using an exploitative play which is perfect for low stakes.
But I will provide my opinion on the hands.

Folding preflop might be the most standard play but you have great pot odds to see a flop, so not a bad call pre.
On the flop you can consider donking because your range hits that board a lot, but checking with either calling or raising in mind is also fine.
On the river I see a pot size bet or a slight overbet to be the ideal sizing, but your shove worked out so maybe your line is superior.

This hand played itself mostly.
If I would do something differently it would be to check raise the flop.
Villain 4x-d pre so their range contains a lot of KQ/AQ/AK pocket pairs and hands that have equity against our holding or dominate us on showdown.
A raise on the flop with betting the turn will make most of those fold even if we don't hit the flush.
Your play is good for pot control though.

As standard as the gravity formula.
Maybe a 3bet once in a while to win the pot pre, but OOP it's better to just call and set mine.

I believe you did play this one badly on the turn.
You should have bet turn to increase the pot size and try to get the stacks in on the river.
If you had any form of straight draw or Qx you would've bet the turn.
Your check back to a thinking villain indicates more strength than weakness.
On the river I would go for a 70% pot size bet because I don't believe a ton of Qx will call any form of an overbet but I could be wrong.

I would go for a check on the turn instead.
We are only getting value from his exact holding and 78s, while flush draws can check raise us and make our life a hell.

Hi there xrhstos how are you? Happy holidays for you and your family!
Thank you a ton for posting this good analysis. It will improve my game a lot! Hugs!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

#13 December 23rd, 2019, 11:27 PM

I wish you happy wonderful holidays to you and your family as well!
Happy to help and especially friendly and insightful people who also help others improve like you Carlos.

#14 January 13th, 2020, 9:56 PM

Originally Posted by Luepso

On the Hands: I think you played fine no mistakes in my opinion. Alltough I'd say that these were pretty standard spots. Post some closer ones :P

1st - don't take any of my advice because I just created my own - "please help me with blind defense thread" Trying to optimize the Blind Defense

.

I agree with Luepso - these hand are kind of easy and play standard. Give us some marginal/closer - hands where you had to make some tough decisions.

Originally Posted by Aballinamion

Hello there CardsChat community! I would like to know if I am overplaying recreational players.

4) 6-MAX: BB defense vs CO raisor and SB caller
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324mfxrmW (I believe I played this one very bad)

Carlos for this hand in particular - a great play is the mini or 1/4th pot bet. Unless you know you are up against a complete calling station - nobody who wants to stick around to play is calling your bet. However try to get as much as you can from your opponent with this NUT hand. The taunting bet or as some call it - the FU bet can sometimes enrage/entice the opponent to call - or even min-raise - even when they know they are beat.
I have even fell for this type of bet before - so I know it works! LOL Not against quads, but vs a flopped boat when I was holding top pair - me=donk! Trying to optimize the Blind Defense

I'd wager your opponent would have called a tiny bet of 0.25 or even 0.55 on the river.

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Trying to optimize the Blind Defense

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