liuouhgkres
Visionary
Bronze Level
So, let's say we open from BTN, BB calls. Flop comes: A83 rainbow, we c-bet range with a small bet sizing, BB calls. Turn comes K. What hands would you bluff and why?
In that situation, I bluff almost everything! It might well be a major leak in my game and I should probably put some time and effort into collecting the actual stats but, just from my own anecdotal experience in that situation, a double-barrel gets the blind to fold after the turn far more often than not. The amount that I bet (half-pot, two-thirds, full, etc) would vary depending on what I know of my opponent, such as if I bet half-pot on the turn will they recognise that as seeming value-y and hence are they more likely to fold, or will two-thirds be more likely to scare them off, etc. Of course, the check-raise from the BB does bite me in the bum every now and then in this kinda situation, but hey, c'est pokerrr!
@Luepso,
well even though UTG tells a better story, BTNvsBB situation happens 10 times more often, that's why we need to analyze this spot.
When I study I don't want to think exploitatively, I want to study how to have GTO-ish, balanced ranges. In this spot for example, on the turn I like overbet, but it's very hard to have enough bluffs.
Well, if you are going to run a bluff from the btn what does it matter which cards you have? Your bluff has little to do with your cards. It's about your read on the opponent, the nature of the board on the flop, stack sizes, your image, etc.
If you bluff almost everything, that's a huge leak in your game.
I did say "In that situation" at the start of my post - the key details being that I'm the Button playing vs just one villain in the BB. The BB is going to defend against my Button raise with a wide range because she knows I'm going to be raising to steal the blinds a fair amount if nobody has VPIPd by the time the action reaches me on the Button. She also expects me to C-bet on the flop as standard, too, so she's likely to get sticky and stubborn, calling my half-pot C-bet even if she's only made a weak connection with the board (e.g. bottom pair). But me also betting the turn is far less expected so if the turn card hasn't improved her holdings significantly, a bluff with the right sizing to suit the board texture is likely to get her to fold a good amount of the time. But like I also said, that's only my anecdotal experience of that specific situation, so if you know for sure that me playing THAT specific situation so aggressively is a major leak in my game, please tell me what you do (with rough percentages if possible) cos I AM on this forum to learn and improve my game!
Thanks very much for your reply and for the insight, this is obviously an area I need to put much more thought into, I'll keep following this thread. Couple of questions, does your personal opinion of how many value/checkback/bluff hands there are vary, depending on whether it's a cash game or tourney? And, is 33% your standard small c-bet - and if it is, why so low?I'm also talking about that specific situation. the only difference being on flop our small bet is not half pot, it is 33%.
On K turn we have a lot of hands that we want to check back. Like Kx, 8x, weak A. As value bets we have A with good kicker and better. That means we have very few value bets, and if we bet all out air we will be ridiculously overbluffing.
On this turn I like overbetting, because K gives us extra 3 sets to our range, so it improves our nuts advantage. We can have roughly 1 bluff for 1 value. I would say from top of my head we will have roughly 75 value hands and we should hat 75-80 bluffs.
The problem is to pick these 75-80 bluffs, hence this thread.
In that situation, I bluff almost everything! It might well be a major leak in my game and I should probably put some time and effort into collecting the actual stats but, just from my own anecdotal experience in that situation, a double-barrel gets the blind to fold after the turn far more often than not. The amount that I bet (half-pot, two-thirds, full, etc) would vary depending on what I know of my opponent, such as if I bet half-pot on the turn will they recognise that as seeming value-y and hence are they more likely to fold, or will two-thirds be more likely to scare them off, etc. Of course, the check-raise from the BB does bite me in the bum every now and then in this kinda situation, but hey, c'est pokerrr!
Yikes! Ill make sure to keep an eye out for that one!
Thanks very much for your reply and for the insight, this is obviously an area I need to put much more thought into, I'll keep following this thread. Couple of questions, does your personal opinion of how many value/checkback/bluff hands there are vary, depending on whether it's a cash game or tourney? And, is 33% your standard small c-bet - and if it is, why so low?
1. Well, in tournaments we have wider ranges, so in most cases we will have more value bets and we will need more bluffs. However, depending on the bet sizes, ratio of bluff to values should remain same. For pot bet for example it is roughly 1 to 1. However, this is deepr topic, because, before reaching flop it is better to think of your hands not as bluffs or values, or rather bet-calls and bet-folds. Because in some cases you bet fold with value hand and bet call with bluffs(for example with nut flush draw). Regardless, you never want to have more than 45% automatic bet-folds, otherwise villain would print money raising every hand. Also in tournaments we should use smaller bet sizings, because of icm. Icm implies that every cheap we earn is less valuable than every cheap we have(and risk to lose). Thus, it is better to play for smaller pots. Also, in tournaments, a lot of time we have 20-30-40bb stacks, where on turn or river villain can check-raise all in, so we need to bet narrower ranges in general.
2. I use 25% and 33% when I range bet. It is just simple way to simplify your complex strategy. Because, no way we can implement GTO strategy, and on some boards we simplify it by betting whole range, 100% of our holding. It works great really, because villains never raise or/and call enough. With small bets a lot of our second, third pairs become thin value bet, and our bluffs have great price. If we bet half pot, now suddenly our small pairs are not profitable bets and our bluffs are more expensive, which in the end means we can not range bet and we need to have complex mixed strategy.