Bad Call?

DogzBestFrnd · Apr 13, 2009

Ok, just for a bit of background. I was sitting at a table with this guy for about 20 mins. before the table got broken up, and I had some decent notes on the guy (loose and bluffs at times sums it up). About 20 hands later he gets seated 2 seats to my right at another table. My stack of 207k is 3rd place in a feild of just about 50. I have a pretty tight table image, but I am agressive when I hit. Have not been cought bluffing yet that these players have seen.

Full Tilt Poker Game #11638099429: $100 United States Freeroll (87192711), Table 195 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:44:19 ET - 2009/04/12
Seat 1: 60_40Dognowfold (42,964)
Seat 2: bluffsbigtime (21,800)
Seat 3: silencehelmuth (83,908)
Seat 4: pokerdot2 (207,466)
Seat 5: DogzBestFrnd (207,315)
Seat 6: Sashiel (45,669)
Seat 7: ky robocop (128,616)
Seat 8: grandrs5 (51,420), is sitting out
Seat 9: jeffdpierson (38,500)
60_40Dognowfold antes 300
bluffsbigtime antes 300
silencehelmuth antes 300
pokerdot2 antes 300
DogzBestFrnd antes 300
Sashiel antes 300
ky robocop antes 300
grandrs5 antes 300
jeffdpierson antes 300
ky robocop posts the small blind of 1,200
grandrs5 posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DogzBestFrnd [Qd Td]
jeffdpierson has 15 seconds left to act
jeffdpierson folds
60_40Dognowfold folds
bluffsbigtime folds
silencehelmuth calls 2,400
pokerdot2 folds
DogzBestFrnd raises to 4,800
Sashiel folds
ky robocop folds
grandrs5 folds
silencehelmuth calls 2,400
*** FLOP *** [Kd 7c Ah]
silencehelmuth checks
DogzBestFrnd bets 2,400
silencehelmuth raises to 19,200
DogzBestFrnd calls 16,800
*** TURN *** [Kd 7c Ah] 9♦
silencehelmuth bets 59,608, and is all in
DogzBestFrnd has 15 seconds left to act
DogzBestFrnd calls 59,608

Good call or bad call? (also if you think I might have been able to play the hand differantly if you want)
I will show the results later.

Btw: this is the first hand I have posted, think I did it right.

beefcake413 · Apr 13, 2009

IMO the only reason to re-raise the flop is if you're trying to push someone off a draw. If you have the AK (or a set) and you think the other person only has a pair you want them to catch up because their so far behind and may be potentially drawing dead. Maybe he sensed this and that's why he called the whole way. Maybe i'm giving him too much credit, but the only hands that reraise would push out would be a weak draw or a weak A at most. Anything stronger is calling you the whole way.

DogzBestFrnd · Apr 13, 2009

*** FLOP *** [Kd 7c Ah]
silencehelmuth checks
DogzBestFrnd bets 2,400
silencehelmuth raises to 19,200
DogzBestFrnd calls 16,800
*** TURN *** [Kd 7c Ah] 9♦
silencehelmuth bets 59,608, and is all in

The re-raise was kinda typical of him trying to steal a pot from what I had seen. At that point (flop) I had him on a pair, either aces or kings, but with a weak kicker(thats what I was thinking anyway).

The all in with the 9d on the turn was the part that made me pause. I couldnt see it helping him unless he had a Q or J or QJ. With that in mind I figured we where probaly both drawing for the strait or flush. Ofourse he could still have the aces or kings too. Maybe 2 pair.

StormRaven · Apr 13, 2009

imo that reraise on the flop was very large given you terrible odds and even if he does bluff a lot I wouldn't have made that call. You had nothing but a gut shot at that point and even donks have a hand once in awhile. Since you did make the call I definitely would've shoved on the turn.

motyennif · Apr 13, 2009

Even though you had notes on him there are three points to consider.
a) He limped and then called your preflop raise.
b) He then check-raised you on the flop.
c) He then went all-in on the turn.
Each step was more aggressive than the previous and even if he was a loose player, you only had Ace high with draws. Maybe give him the benefit of the doubt and fold, still keeping your large chip stack, and waiting for a better chance to go up against him.
My question - seeing as you did call, did the Jd show up on the river and if so, what he say to you as a result ?

RichKo · Apr 13, 2009

Since I suck at the whole odds thing, I'm gonna skip figuring those right now and just say a couple things. Playing it the way you did you probably should have folded but I'm gonna try to figure that later. First, I don't really like the minraise preflop. That paired with you c- betting 2400 into a pot of almost 16000 screams weakness and right there was the worst of it, I think. Preflop 2.5-3.5xbb and at least 1/2 th pot for a cbet. I know this was only a freeroll but when your down to the last bunch of players they are usually a little better than the normal freeroll crop.

lektrikguy · Apr 14, 2009

The whole thing is moot. This was a freeroll. It's not real poker. This is the tourney where a lot of guys go all in every hand trying to build a stack. With a good hand or total crap. Trying to figure out pot odds or bet size on a freeroll hand is like trying to hold a lottery ticket up to the light to pick a winner. Until the very end it's a crap shoot.

cardplayer52 · Apr 14, 2009

i know you got notes on this guy. but i sometimes change my style of play when i start a new table. i would give this guy a round or 2 to see if he's still playing loose. but you called on a draw? if you had something then ok i can see calling. i will start with a pocket pair and call someone down to the river if he's predictable. all you got is position and he took that away w/the all in. i say fold. i had someone like this at my table and lost a huge stack to him i called his allin flop bet w/an over pair he had two overs and hit. but i think i could have waited for a better hand to trap with. i think you can too. wait till you got something then call him down.

RichKo · Apr 14, 2009

lektrikguy said:
The whole thing is moot. This was a freeroll. It's not real poker. This is the tourney where a lot of guys go all in every hand trying to build a stack. With a good hand or total crap. Trying to figure out pot odds or bet size on a freeroll hand is like trying to hold a lottery ticket up to the light to pick a winner. Until the very end it's a crap shoot.

with 1200/2400 blinds and only 50 left...this pretty much is the end.

Suited Frenzy · Apr 14, 2009

You called off & risked almost half your stack w/ only a draw...I myself think it's a bad call either way; win or lose.

DogzBestFrnd · Apr 14, 2009

Thanks for the input. Your probably right it was a bad call given all the factors...the biggest being I only had a draw.
I guess I was over playing the 12 outs. Normaly I would fold this hand, but like I said I figured him for bluffing or semi-bluffing a draw also.
Heres how it played out:

*** TURN *** [Kd 7c Ah] 9♦
silencehelmuth bets 59,608, and is all in
DogzBestFrnd has 15 seconds left to act
DogzBestFrnd calls 59,608
silencehelmuth shows [Js Tc]
DogzBestFrnd shows [Qd Td]
*** RIVER *** [Kd 7c Ah 9d] 9♠
silencehelmuth shows a pair of Nines
DogzBestFrnd shows a pair of Nines
DogzBestFrnd wins the pot (173,516) with a pair of Nines

His reaction was to rant about my bad play for the next 2 levels of blinds. My only reaction to his your an idiot rants was that I figured him for a bluff. I dont mind so much the rant, except that it went on so long.

Thanks again for the input all.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I was also very tempted by the strait flush draw

pokermatch · Apr 14, 2009

I have to say that it was a bad call. I mean you were going for an inside
straight but thats it!!! On the flop, you raised which is ok, you wanted to
test what the guy had, and well he reraised u hard. You have nothing at
this point, and u decide to call all those thousands with an inside staright
going... and dont think about pairing cause even if you do, the ace he is
representing is killing you... hell i think he might have 2 pairs. Now, on
the turn he goes allin, and you call again? I just cant picture you as a tight
player with those moves. I have to say that i believe it was a very bad move,
and also that i think you caught it

! hope u did! heh

aznman08 · Apr 14, 2009

even though you ended up winning the hand and knocking him out, since hes loose and likes to bluff, the problem with calling is that even if hes on a draw you're on a draw. he could have had pocket 2s and still would have beaten you. course in the end you made the right move since hes bluffing "again"

DogzBestFrnd · Apr 17, 2009

Thanks again for the input all. The more I think about it the more I see that it was a bad call from his check re-raise point. I was going on the bluff situation but I realized later that sometimes I will bluff at a low pot hopeing for callers just to try to set them up for a lager pot later on. If he had been doing that I would have taken a huge hit to my stack just because I thought he was bluffing.

As a follow up. This is the first hand I have posted on CC. Did I do it right or is there something I should change? (besides useing the stoxpoker hand converter, I saw that in the BR contest thread after I posted this hand)

Steveg1976 · Apr 17, 2009

DogzBestFrnd said:
Thanks again for the input all. The more I think about it the more I see that it was a bad call from his check re-raise point. I was going on the bluff situation but I realized later that sometimes I will bluff at a low pot hopeing for callers just to try to set them up for a lager pot later on. If he had been doing that I would have taken a huge hit to my stack just because I thought he was bluffing.

As a follow up. This is the first hand I have posted on CC. Did I do it right or is there something I should change? (besides useing the stoxpoker hand converter, I saw that in the BR contest thread after I posted this hand)

Use the Converter (either stox or CC's)

Posting these in the Hand Analysis section will also help.

also try to be more specific in your thread titles, something that describes the situation. Example "NLHE Freeroll Facing Turn Shove Bluff?" Or something like that will possibly get you many more responses because people know that you understand at least a little bit of the situation and took the time to actually title your post. Now if it a cut and dry situation so be it but again you get the idea.

Debi · Apr 17, 2009

Good to see you posting hands! A few tips:

- post them in Tournament HA
- at the point you want advice - don't post your action. Wait to see what others advise to do in that position.
- and what Steve said (tho I don't like the converters and haven't been using them myself lol)

Good background information provided by you.

empco · Apr 19, 2009

you gotta be kidding me! you played that junk! man i never heard of such a foolish play.

DogzBestFrnd · Apr 19, 2009

Thanks for the hand posting info Steveg and Dakota. And I see what you mean about the converters Dakota, for me it seems cleaner this way, but as I am not the Super Mod I will use the converters

Hey empco, why dont you go do some work instead of spending all your time in a forum you mook.

Must be an oil worker or something.

Bad Call?

DogzBestFrnd

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