Another PLO preflop Aces question

I'm one of the players that advocates getting your stack all in preflop in PLO with aces if possible, But I just want some opinions on some random situations that I've come across and I want to see what others say. FOR ALL OF THESE SITUATIONS PLEASE LOOK AT YOUR HAND as being AAxx, xx being 2 rags very little help (very little help at best being AA78 no flush draw or AA58 and 2 cards in the same suit). I think its alot easier to shove in these situations when you have AA(insert pair) AAkq aa23 etc. etc. Cash game outlook preferred (because the situations more logically happen in cash games) but I would love to hear some PLO tourney outlook on these situations

Situation 1:
Most times you getting all in its heads up, but what about occassions where your pretty sure your going to get called by 2 people at least when you reraise the reraiser preflop.

Example

Player A raises pot max utg (very loose player that makes stupid calls and does not respect bets)
Player B reraises pot max on the button (this player is known to reraise with literally any 4 cards is guaranteed to call any reraises and has shown on a day to day basis no regard for bankroll)
I have AAxx and If I raise I pretty much know for sure no matter what either 2 players have they are calling my reraise or Player B will reraise my reraise and put me and Player A all in.

Knowing that your gonna pretty much have 2 people all in with you with anything and you have just AA with 2 rags, is it still worth it to reraise to get most of your stack in still? should we just call and see the flop? Should we fold and let the 2 out of control players duke it out?

Situation 2: Same exact situation as situation 1 only there is another loose player between Player A and B that for whatever reason feels inclined to go all in or "Lotto" the particular pot. Making it 4 potential players all in. What to do here?

Situation 3: you can get one player nearly all in heads up only your hand reads AAAx. odds calculator favors the aaax would you do it? What about the same hand (AAAx) but in the exact same situation as Situation 1, what do you do?

If I have AA with any other suited cards I will more than likely try to get all in with them Doubled suited even with rags is 80%+ win chance. One A suited is worth about 38% even with rags.

even when you have 3 aces like situation 3?

Most of the situations depend on how much variance you want to take. In all the situations you are likely to be only a marginal favorite, so be prepared to loose most of these battles.

If you are unwilling to risk the variance, you can either see the flop (depends on stack sizes) and then decide, or alternatively you can just fold AAxx - it is almost garbage anyways.

I think many players come into PLO and overvalue Aces. Yes its nice, but it is only a marginal with two other players in the pot.

In a article I read recently, it was suggested that you should try to get to all-in situtations with AAxx against one player as soon as possible and you should fold the hand unless you think you can get more than 30% of your stack in pre-flop.


Situation 1:

Against two players you are the favorite or the second favorite depending on the cards that the other players have (but you are still more than 1/3 to win it).


Situation 2:

Against four players you are a even smaller favorite, you can probably make only marginal profit when the rake is deducted. Fold or call.


And situation 3, you would play since you can get it in good (Usually something like 50-60% to win)
AAAx against two players = fold (even tough you might be more than 1/3 to win, it is so marginal that the rake will most likely eat your winnings).

the variance factor, your right about that, generally Im willing to risk it, even though the edge is somewhat marginal I look at it from the long term point of view.

I usually try to get at least 40% of my stack in preflop. deep stacks its usually not gonna happen unless you've got 3 different people raising or one person simply not caring, so its rare I get my Aces in deepstack, but I would tho not only because I am the favorite but it shows me that your (villain/villains) pretty much playing blind poker.

That being said I think 30% may be alittle too low especially deepstack because it gives the villain to much room to fold/come over top because you have to bet the hand. They've got plenty of room to get away with only 30%.

Thats something that has to be considered too, sometimes you might not be able to get the percentage you want of your own stack in, but If i can apply that same rule to my opponents stack when I'm reraising, than I'll do it there also because essentially he/she is playing the hand as if they have aces by committing a sizeable amount of their stack preflop if the percentage rule doesn't meet the standards of my stack. But thats off topic lol

I like what you said about situation 2 and 3. I'm going to try calling a little more often in situations similar to situation 2 especially if I have built my stack up because at that point its not worth the risk to get in a 4 way pot if I happened to get called because people want to play lotto with me.

As far as situation 3, I was never really a fan of the getting my money in deep preflop with 3 aces if I could, it just didn't seem logical, 3 of the same cards it just made feel like an idiot player doing that sometimes (lol as if I prolly don't donk enough as is). I never even checked the odds of 3 aces to winning heads up until I made this post and I guess it does make sense to get your stack in if you can there. I agree with 3 people there tho its a definite fold

In PLO AAxx is not an all in hand preflop. Unless you're just looking for your opponents to fold . Even if you hit another ace, unless the board pairs to give you a boat, a set is not that great in PLO. You want to be shooting for straights and flushes mostly, everthing I've ever read on PLO states this. Someone with a hand like 357 10, especially if they're suited or double suited, could crush aces most of the time. And with a hand like AAAx I wouldnt even bother playing unless you can get in and out cheap, cause the chance that you'll hit your case ace are slim, and still all you'll have is a set.

in ring games AAxx is just something I'm looking to hit a set with. Over pairs are trash.

tourney, with decient blinds, its time to drop the hammer

Jayson745 said:

in ring games AAxx is just something I'm looking to hit a set with. Over pairs are trash.

tourney, with decient blinds, its time to drop the hammer

Click to expand...

This is so backwards. In tournies you want to avoid pushing your small edges, while in a cash game, 51/49 is an edge I'll push all day long...

In PLO AAxx is not an all in hand preflop. Unless you're just looking for your opponents to fold . Even if you hit another ace, unless the board pairs to give you a boat, a set is not that great in PLO. You want to be shooting for straights and flushes mostly, everthing I've ever read on PLO states this. Someone with a hand like 357 10, especially if they're suited or double suited, could crush aces most of the time. And with a hand like AAAx I wouldnt even bother playing unless you can get in and out cheap, cause the chance that you'll hit your case ace are slim, and still all you'll have is a set.

Click to expand...

yeah I agree omaha is a straights and flush game, but were talking about preflop all in.

I calculated the odds on the hand you said 35710 double suited against aa94 3 different ways Preflop:

1. 3d5d7c10c vs ah as 9c 4d = aces favorite 54% vs 46% preflop
2. " " vs ah as 9s 4d (suited outside of opponents suits) = aces wins 56% vs 44%
3. " " vs ad as 9c 4d (suited once in opponents suit) = aces wins 62% vs 38%

(odds courtesy of cardplayer)

a couple things to remember imo. 1 even with 4 cards, people don't hit hands all the time in omaha, its the fact that someone else has increased chance to hit a hand with 4 cards. Its alot of bluffing going on. You can't bluff aces preflop. Plus peoples hands aint always as coordinated in the best fashion when your getting someone all in. Rarely have I seen someone get in all in against aces with a hand like qj109 double suited, it happens but more times than often the hands are much more uncoordinated than a hand like that.

If your playing for 2 pair against aces, which I do often,its cool to see the flop but not when your virtually all in preflop because the reraise is about 70% of the stack you have. Alot of times people will get all in vs aces with an ace in their hand (there goes your out for an ace) and let the other person happen to have another card that you have, because just as you can hit 2 pairs the player with aces still has 2 live cards also to double pair. If you playing for the straight or flush thats cool when your calling off about 30% of your stack to see the flop, but 60% and up your really playing a preflop percentage game that in the long term the percentages say your not going to win because your virtually pot committed.

Another thing if you play for 2 pair, remember, even if you hit 2 pair, if that board pairs again any card that you don't have you automatically lose if it doesn't make you a straight or flush. And the board seemingly pairs ever so often.

Straights and flushes are made often in omaha, but to put your whole stack on the line and play a percentage game preflop on a single given hand to hit a flush or a straight, without regard to what your opponent has outside of aces; in the long run ring game the math says thats never going to add up in your favor in the long run