When to check raise

madjek

madjek

Rock Star
After playing a live tournament sat and just missing itm , 11th, 9 paid, I reflected on some of my hands trying to think how I could of maybe built a bigger stack and Maybe could of went little deeper. My conclusion was my check raises cost me money, and in general I've been making a lot of bad plays check raising. As I think about it, I wonder when is right time to check raise, and am thinking really not that often, maybe even more to bluff, as every time, nearly, it leads to a fold. Playing players that are not the best, just calling their bet seems to more profitable, let them keep firing. I sometimes just want to take big pot down, not let some crazy river beat me. Just curious if any thoughts on this
 
N

nunch92

Enthusiast
After playing a live tournament sat and just missing itm , 11th, 9 paid, I reflected on some of my hands trying to think how I could of maybe built a bigger stack and Maybe could of went little deeper. My conclusion was my check raises cost me money, and in general I've been making a lot of bad plays check raising. As I think about it, I wonder when is right time to check raise, and am thinking really not that often, maybe even more to bluff, as every time, nearly, it leads to a fold. Playing players that are not the best, just calling their bet seems to more profitable, let them keep firing. I sometimes just want to take big pot down, not let some crazy river beat me. Just curious if any thoughts on this


I find check raising useful when I think a player is C-betting too much. For example, if my open raises from the button and I call with A9 in the big blind. Then the flop comes 4 9 5. I will always check this to the pre-flop raiser. Then if he C-bets (as many players often do on any board), I'll check raise because I likely have the best hand in this situation. I only check-raise as a bluff if I think my opponent is C-betting WAY to much and the board doesn't help his range. Or if I have a strong draw and want to build a pot or take it down.
 
madjek

madjek

Rock Star
I find check raising useful when I think a player is C-betting too much. For example, if my open raises from the button and I call with A9 in the big blind. Then the flop comes 4 9 5. I will always check this to the pre-flop raiser. Then if he C-bets (as many players often do on any board), I'll check raise because I likely have the best hand in this situation. I only check-raise as a bluff if I think my opponent is C-betting WAY to much and the board doesn't help his range. Or if I have a strong draw and want to build a pot or take it down.
This is basically the kind of hand in thinking of. Say you think he has big A, AK or AQ. What is PT of check raising and taking pot. Why not let him keep betting, If an A hits, you'll take down a much bigger pot. Guess any facecard hits and you are stuck, so guess that's the issue, risk vs reward
 
Dailon Arroyo Blandon

Dailon Arroyo Blandon

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in my personal case before doing a ckeck raise, I must know well how the opponent plays ... and if is an opponent that plays consistently C-bet ... and I have a strong hand like AKo or AQs or QQ I do a check raising
 
gabpoker

gabpoker

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Is this mostly from the blinds, or are you flatting 3 bets OOP? One thing I would look at is am I calling instead of 3 betting to much from the blinds or flatting instead of 4 betting OOP too much. The better the opponents the more I am going to be 3 or 4 betting.

On the flop in general I would XR my best hands and worst draws and XC with my marginal made hands and best draws and XF my garbage. The flop will play a big role in determining what kind of hand I have, for example if I flop a set on a dry board I am more likely to XC then if there are a lot of straight and flush possibilities.
 
Q

Queenlimp

Rock Star
Great perspectives offered.
I see why nobody respects position, but do see the check raise from the BB often on the flop. I need to do it more often in the BB (especially when under minimal risk); however if they also check, you give them a free card.
As someone rightfully stated, tendency becomes the biggest judge (the consistent c-better).


For the thread starter:
My question is: in what positions do you find yourself check raising?


FYI: I lost a significant tourney today betting a pot size with the 9 high pair w/K kicker to a large stack and that was not good enough for his a5o to fold. The next card was an ace. In hindsight, I should of went all in. It was the final 11 of the tourney.


Be careful with the 3bet. It's also useful against a loose range to protect your hand when in position. So strong in position, limpers will fold, a small raise will fold, and just about any C-bet on a unconnected flop will warrant a fold.
 
Serjo600

Serjo600

Legend
There are many ways to use this move as nuts and the bluff, but you need to consider postflop notes and stats in a live game it tells, that is how the villain playing postflop. If the Board allows you to play a check/raise in a bluff, why not take advantage of it.
 
JBGoode

JBGoode

Rock Star
Check raising is really one of the trickest part of the game for me. When it works, or your doing it for value it's great. When it doesnt you seem to almost always ask yourself, "why did I do that?"

The key is to know "why" you do it, and have a good justifiable reason to do so. For exsample....

Let's say we have Qd7d on a Qs7hTh board. We called an open from late position, and we are in the BB. We obviously check to the aggressor, but we are checking because donking is worest then checking. We want to get money in the pot, deny equity to drawing hands, and build value while we have it. So everything point to a check raise for value....

On the flip side we need to be balanced, and also check raise as a bluff. This is where it gets tricky....

For example, let say we open from the LJ possition and got called by the BTN. We have KsJs flop comes JhQs2s... we have middle pair with a strong flush draw, but not the best. We should be checking our middle pair, cause if we CBet, and get raised now we are playing a bloated pot where we are forced to make a tough decision on the turn if we miss (check turn, call or fold to a big bet). If we check raise as a bluff (figuring we got a price of it, but really isnt good enough to constitute a check raise for value) we maintain control of the pot, and can condense down thier range if they call us. This allows the hand to be played a lot easier. Cause if we check on missed turns, they are checking back alot of the time giving us a free river. If we hit, we are still checking turn to all
After playing a live tournament sat and just missing itm , 11th, 9 paid, I reflected on some of my hands trying to think how I could of maybe built a bigger stack and Maybe could of went little deeper. My conclusion was my check raises cost me money, and in general I've been making a lot of bad plays check raising. As I think about it, I wonder when is right time to check raise, and am thinking really not that often, maybe even more to bluff, as every time, nearly, it leads to a fold. Playing players that are not the best, just calling their bet seems to more profitable, let them keep firing. I sometimes just want to take big pot down, not let some crazy river beat me. Just curious if any thoughts on this
Check raising is really one of the trickest part of the game for me. When it works, or your doing it for value it's great. When it doesnt you seem to almost always ask yourself, "why did I do that?"

The key is to know "why" you do it, and have a good justifiable reason to do so. For exsample....

Let's say we have Qd7d on a Qs7hTh board. We called an open from late position, and we are in the BB. We obviously check to the aggressor, but we are checking because donking is worest then checking. We want to get money in the pot, deny equity to drawing hands, and build value while we have it. So everything points to a check raise for value....

On the flip side we need to be balanced, and also check raise as a bluff. This is where it gets tricky....

For example, let say we open from the LJ possition and got called by the BTN. We have KsJs flop comes JhQs2s... we have middle pair with a strong flush draw, but not the best. We should be checking our middle pair, cause if we CBet, and get raised now we are playing a bloated pot where we are forced to make a tough decision on the turn if we miss (check turn, call or fold to a big bet). If we check raise as a bluff (figuring we got a piece of it, but really isnt good enough to constitute a check raise for value) we maintain control of the pot, and can condense down thier range if they call us. This allows the hand to be played a lot easier. Cause if we check on missed turns, they are checking back alot of the time giving us a free river. If we hit, we are still checking turn to allow them to bluff to extract more value....

In the rare case they do fire the turn after we check raise as a bluff, we can evaluate our equity, and deside if we have proper pot odds to continue to possibly hit on the river. (More likely to call small bets/more likely to fold to big bets) the thing is, after a check raise Vil is more likely to bet big with Nutted hands, and either check or bet small with bluffs and middling hands. Then we rinse and repeat the same strat we hand for the turn on the river. With the exception if we hit. We might consider a donk to extract value from a passive/call heavy player when the river card gives us a the nuts or close to it.
 
JBGoode

JBGoode

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My reply came up super weird.... start reading under the quote not above it. It wouldnt let me edit it.
 
C

chiefmax

Rock Star
honestly this question is way to broad and i dont think anyone can answer it correctly. you picked a very complicated situation but didnt tell us what the situatons are. there are thousands of possible combinations of hands, flops, turns, rivers to check raise. if you post some specific hands i think you will find the advice the people give on here to be alot more helpfull because youll see the exact reasoning for certain situations and be able to figue out how to use that reasoning in other similar situations.
 
jfmcd86

jfmcd86

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I usually check raise to an absolute nuts other than that, maybe check raise to a min bet to a 3-bet....check raising a value bet will get the villain pressured and scared .
 
RagNar87

RagNar87

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check raise on good hand and vs an aggresive player that u know he will c bet
 
G

gryphon3005

Rock Star
honestly this question is way to broad and i dont think anyone can answer it correctly. you picked a very complicated situation but didnt tell us what the situatons are. there are thousands of possible combinations of hands, flops, turns, rivers to check raise. if you post some specific hands i think you will find the advice the people give on here to be alot more helpfull because youll see the exact reasoning for certain situations and be able to figue out how to use that reasoning in other similar situations.

I agree...check raising is a specific tactic that depends on the situational variables you find in a hand. Talking about check raises as a general strategy doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
antonis32123

antonis32123

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You try to set a trap but sometimes this srtikes back , the opponent doesnt raise , a free card is given to him which might give him the draw he wanted or a nut hand ,so we don't know anymore if we are ahead or not . I really hate these moments . Or when you are on the river with the nut hand and you decide to check hoping for a bet from one opponent and then to check raise , but everyone is checking back and you miss the opportunity---really tricky the check raise is :)
 
S

Steve Deeble

Visionary
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I normally check raise when I’ve caught high pockets or flopped the nuts just trying to create a trap.
 
A

AngelBLR_Poker

Rock Star
Do a check raise when you are sure that after your check people raise rates and to earn more increases its!
 
G

Gaaangster

Rising Star
After playing a live tournament sat and just missing itm , 11th, 9 paid, I reflected on some of my hands trying to think how I could of maybe built a bigger stack and Maybe could of went little deeper. My conclusion was my check raises cost me money, and in general I've been making a lot of bad plays check raising. As I think about it, I wonder when is right time to check raise, and am thinking really not that often, maybe even more to bluff, as every time, nearly, it leads to a fold. Playing players that are not the best, just calling their bet seems to more profitable, let them keep firing. I sometimes just want to take big pot down, not let some crazy river beat me. Just curious if any thoughts on this

I tend to x/r wet boards where my range smashes the board and the board really doesn’t connect with the pfa. This usually happens when I’m playing in the BB. I like to x/r flush draws with an over to the board. I’m x/r’ing almost all sets. And then I like to x/r second pair with any backdoor. I’m usually never x/r’ing with any tp due to the fact that villain is usually bluffing in these situations so it’s best to call flop, check turn and continue to let villian bluff. When I x/r I usually have a plan on what I’m going to do when specific cards come on the turn and river. If I pick up equity on the turn then I’m leading the turn. If I pick up no equity I check the turn and make the decision if my hand has enough equity to call a turn bet. If villian bets and I decide that the equity is there for a call then I make my hand on the river, I’m always checking and hoping he bets river so I can x/r again. If I don’t make my hand then the x/f is straightforward. This is all heads up on the flop. Multi-way is more complicated.
 
Mati1265

Mati1265

Rising Star
Like always: 'It depends'. Is better check-raise in flop like XYY because 'you maybe have the Y' and is more better when our enemy is a tight player.
 
S

serhat190594

Rising Star
There are many ways to use this move as nuts and the bluff, but you need to consider postflop notes and stats in a live game it tells, that is how the villain playing postflop. If the Board allows you to play a check/raise in a bluff, why not take advantage of it.
 
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