What would you have done? #2

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MimiMLZ

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Hi guys,

Here is a situation,

You are short stack with Ten blinds left. But you are close to the money. You have pocket 10's and an oppenent has gone all in before you. Would you guys call it and risk to get busted before getting into the money, knowing that if you win the pot you would confortable for the next stage of the tournament? Or would you fold and wait for your oppenent to get called by someone else, knowing that may be after that you would be force to go all in with any two?

Thanks guys
 
Psyanide14

Psyanide14

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Probably a fold for me though I would like more information such as how much the short stacks are and exactly how close we are to the money. If there are more stacks that have less than 5 bb than spots left til money, then even more definitely fold. Also, what position is the shover in, how many more to act after us, villains stack size (he is just bullying), etc. I would definitely open shove with 10s but calling here most likely not. But again, need more information.
 
Bnobob

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FINAL TOURNAMENT

with 10 BB to call it would be for sure in a x1 situation, but it is very likely that the villain has Jj'Qq'Kk'AA:D:jd4:
 
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ph_il

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This is going to depend on a number of factors like villain stack size and open shove range, how far away from the money we are, and shortest stack sizes.

If we're close to still a fair ways to go before cashing, say 15-20 players. This is going to be an easy call. 1010 does fairly well against short stack shove ranges and we're still too far away to comfortably get into the money by just folding our hands. Personally speaking, I'd rather go for the double up in this scenario at the risk of busting out as 20+ bbs is going to be better long term than holding onto your stack and hoping to make the money.

In a scenario where we're close, 5-10 players left before money, and there are a number of players with 1-5 bbs left, then this is an easy fold. We're practically guaranteed some profit (or at least cashing) and to bust out here will not be good.
 
mariale_1990

mariale_1990

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It is a difficult situation because many times that type of hands when we are short stack makes us hesitate, but sometimes you have to think about it very well without making a hasty decision, I could tell you that the most likely thing that I would do would be to wait, but other times my intuition leads me to another path that is to take risks, but it is just my intuition, it also depends on how close to ITM it is, and how that opponent has been playing
 
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donpiatnik

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Hi guys,

Here is a situation,

You are short stack with Ten blinds left. But you are close to the money. You have pocket 10's and an oppenent has gone all in before you. Would you guys call it and risk to get busted before getting into the money, knowing that if you win the pot you would confortable for the next stage of the tournament? Or would you fold and wait for your oppenent to get called by someone else, knowing that may be after that you would be force to go all in with any two?

Thanks guys


This is based on the information I gather about my opponent (how many chips does your opponent have, how has he behaved so far especially in the bubble stage.) and how important it is to arrive money?
 
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donpiatnik

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This is based on the information I gather about my opponent (how many chips does your opponent have, how has he behaved so far especially in the bubble stage.) and how important it is to arrive money?


in short, all indications are that this will be a 50-50% party, then if the tournament is already moderately important or even more important I would let go. And if I guess I’m most likely better, I would definitely call.
 
IntenseHeat

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I'll fold. I'll rather be the one doing the betting in good position instead of calling a raise.
All of the responses above are very good and I agree with all of them. My decision would depend on several factors, most of which have already been pointed out. But the simplest answer I can give, and the first one that came to mind after reading the OP, was right along the same line as zerolsalex's response. I would rather be the one doing the betting. With a short stack, I probably not hesitate to shove with tense. But I always say that what I would raise with is not always the same hand that I would call a raise with. Likewise, what I would shove all-in with is not always going to be the same hand that I would call someone else's all-in with. For that reason, I would probably fold. Of course it's also going to depend on several of the other factors mentioned above. But more often than not, I'm probably going to fold.
 
Newzooozooo

Newzooozooo

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Hi.
Apparently to some extent it depends on the size of the prize fund. But nevertheless, personally I prefer risk in such a situation. Such a pair is quite a strong card and in my opinion with such a hand is worth the risk.
Good luck.
 
Zapahlohotrona

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I think 10-10 is a bit too strong to fold there.In general, in small buy-in tournaments, the call is correct.
 
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dukgen

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As others have touched on this already, I would say it depends on how close you are to money. If its like 3 or less ITM, then I'd fold and hope other tables bust players to push you ITM. If the money bubble isn't in the equation, then I'd think of calling after considering the all-in player's stack size/hand ranges. If he's a good player, then I'd avoid going up against an overpair.
 
infonazar

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There is no right or wrong answer to this question. But I am more inclined to consider all-in in such situations.
 
Alex70793

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This is not an easy task, because a pocket pair of tens for a short stack is a good hand.
If in this tournament you have a task to get into the money, the stack allows you to sit out, then it is better to wait.
Well, if you want to take the first place in this tournament, then you definitely need to call.
 
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fundiver199

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Questions like this is, what the program ICMizer is for, and just to give you an idea, I created a scenario, where 32 players are left on 888 Poker, and 27 gets paid. Hero has 10BB, the player jamming has 12BB, and the average for the other players is 25BB. So a fairly typical "near the money" situation in an MTT. What ICMizer does is to assume, that players can either jam or fold, and then it calculate the NASH equilibrium, which are the ranges, where players are neither winning or losing money. Often this is referred to as GTO or Game Theory Optimal ranges.

For the first simulation I put Hero in BB, and Villain in SB. At the Nash equilibrium Villain should jam 96% of hands, and Hero should call 24% of hands, which is 44+, A4+, K9+, QT+, A2s+, K6s+, Q9s+, JTs. Obviously the margin for error is very one sided here, since its almost impossible for Villain to jam wider, than they should, while they could be jamming to little, if they use a limping strategy or simply fold to many hands. So if you call a few less hands than those listed, that will be a good adjustment, but folding TT would be a big mistake.

Now however lets see, what happen, if we move Villain to UTG. Now the Nash equilibrium has Villain jamming only 8% of hands. This is because rather than having just one player to get through, now he need to get through the entire table, and therefore he needs a much stronger hand to make this move. And therefore Hero also need a much stronger hand to call. In fact ICMizer only has Hero calling with 2,9% of hands, which is QQ+ and AK, so now TT is actually a fold, and calling would be pretty bad.

Now let move Hero to UTG+1 and see, what that does. This is a worse situation for Hero, because now the other 6 players have not yet acted, and of course each of them could wake up with a big hand like aces or kings, which would be terrible for Hero. So now Hero should only call with 1,5% of hands, which is QQ+ and AKs. AKo is therefore no longer a call.

Then of course there are all the other situations in between, like Villain jamming from BNT, CO, HJ etc. For each of those situations and for each position of Hero the calling range will be different. It will also be slightly different depending on the payout structure and exactly how far from the bubble, we are. Here it was still 5 players to go, if it was only one, calling ranges would be tighter.

So as you can see, this is way more complex than "I have TT, and its near the bubble". Its not about being afraid of bubbling or not being afraid of bubbling. Its about making the decision, which is most +EV in the long run. At least this is true for any situation, where a min-cash is not critically important to you. And if it is, you should not have been playing that tournament, unless you won an entry to it in a freeroll or lottery.
 
WickedFRoST

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Its not enough information in your question to answer properly. The answer depends on how close it is to the bubble, does the guy who is all in cover you, and how many paid spots are there? 10? 100? 500? All these factors are crucial.

For example, if it is the exact bubble (one player left to bust before ITM), then pocket tens is an easy fold here. However, if you are like several people away from the prizes (ex: 15 left; 10 paid), then it is a slam dunk call since you cannot afford to wait for a better spot.
 
LFC_yllnwa

LFC_yllnwa

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10 blinds on the bubble or very close to it, this is not a bad situation for you :) If you understand that winning the current tournament is very difficult and getting into the money is a good result, playing all in is a bad decision! It is necessary to evaluate the player (how he plays and his position in the tournament) and the number of chips of other participants in the tournament.

But I think 10 blinds sometimes allow you to put pressure on the table and play all in, wrong in this situation, you still have a chance to rise in the tournament, a after losing on the river or flop after the all-in, you will lose everything and every chance.. Therefore, do not turn off your brain and sometimes you will be top))) Good luck ;)
 
deputat777

deputat777

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If you play in first place, then of course you call.
 
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