4 players left
Top two gets paid

I was utg ith 12 BBwith A8 suited.
UTG has 18 BB
SB has 70 BB
BB has 12 BB

Should I all in/min raise or fold?


I shoved and ended up getting called by 77 and 88

Advice is appreciated

All in. You are one of the shortest stacks, so little chance to fold your way to the money, and you cant sit around and wait for aces or kings.

Easy shove and pray spot. No point in min raising, if you are re-raised you're putting the rest in anyway. A8 is pretty solid 4 handed so you're not folding. A raise is in order but b/c you're short stacked the only way to play this is to shove.

With 12BB it is a snap shove. Dont worry about the result of the hand. Just know you made the correct play.

Wait until the two will drop out and be left alone. Go all in. So the chances are quite high. Because if you have a small stack is likely you will call, and with a bad hand.

You did not mention that you probably lost against those 77 and 88.
So the example itself tells that you shall min-raise or fold.

The problem is that you were UTG, so there are real chances you will be called.
It is a hard fold but the example itself tells that you shall fold. More often, at least. If you manage to steal blinds - good for you, but you do not earn too much either. But if you get called - you are on thin ice now as A8s aint too good chances against any combination whatsoever.

Easy shove - dont be results oriented when a better hand calls you, it happens. You made the correct play and that's a good thing.

It’s a difficult question whether or not to shove or fold.
That late in the tournament, with the shortest stack.
I think I would have folded and paid my blinds waiting for better cards or at least a better position to shove.

P.s
I think a lot of people say to shove and not worry about the consequences because of the ev, I think at this point of the game, icm should be the more important governing factor, making an easy fold, also for the 77 that called.
However, I’m probably wrong and do not understand icm

I would have shoved as well. I can not tell you if from the game theory point of view that is correct, but you are so short I feel the decision is made for you. What are you going to wait for? It was unfortunate that you managed to bump into two pairs, I think most of the time you get through.

I would probably be kicked out of tournament

I would rather shove, no reason to wait and hand is good.

it ok to shove all-in you are short stack.

What was the prizepool? Normally it is a shove but if this money means a lot to you, you could consider to minraise and see what is happening.

Wait for better cards
I would not go all in
With KQ orso I would go all in

With A8 I would just call, and fold if others went all in

With only 4 players, the blinds come around very quickly. So, I think a shove in that situation is fine. With 6 players, maybe you can go 1 more orbit and try to get a stronger hand, but you just don't have much time with 4.

Just to be a contrarian I think a fold here was the better move. You're out of position with a weak ace. Next hand you would have been BB and last to act preflop. I point this out because for you and the other small stack pre-flop play is pretty well all that matters at this stage.

Originally Posted by gryphon3005

Just to be a contrarian I think a fold here was the better move. You're out of position with a weak ace. Next hand you would have been BB and last to act preflop. I point this out because for you and the other small stack pre-flop play is pretty well all that matters at this stage.

4 handed I disagree and think this is a shove, sure full ring UTG it's a definite fold but 4 handed is totally different a good chance you could get called light because of your stack. Opponents just happened to wake up with a hand you made the right play don't worry about the result. Imagine if he folds this and wakes up in the BB with 92o has to fold that then has to fold sb with something equally bad. Then he has 10.5 BB and if antes are in play he is going to be getting blinded out and never get a better spot he will be getting called off practically any 2 with his stack size

Originally Posted by pokerdebit

Wait for better cards
I would not go all in
With KQ orso I would go all in

With A8 I would just call, and fold if others went all in

You do realize A8 is ahead of KQ preflop? With 12BB you cant wait too long. In a 4 hand game A8 is a decent hand. With 12BB im looking to shove with any ace or any pair even 22 and most hands that I would play blackjack with.

Originally Posted by Whitefridge

4 players left
Top two gets paid

I was utg ith 12 BBwith A8 suited.
UTG has 18 BB
SB has 70 BB
BB has 12 BB

Should I all in/min raise or fold?


I shoved and ended up getting called by 77 and 88

Advice is appreciated

Your best option is to shove. It's a shove/fold situation as far as my limited understanding of GTO is concerned.

And to answer this for myself there is a chart on tightpoker.com giving =/- values of 169 starting hands
https://www.tightpoker.com/poker_hands.html

As you can see, if you check out the above link. A8s is 24th out of 169 top ev hands. Without considering all the implications of the chart the theory and math behind it for example, the way I see it, is you are far more likely to get junk and -EV hands in the short term(next 10 hands) than you are to get better. You have less than 12 orbits before you blind out and only 4 players so that's every 4 hands your are in the big blind. If you wait say just 6 more hands that puts you 3 more bbs lower to 9BB. So I guess it depends on how confident you feel you will find a better position, Quickly!

note: this is just my interpretation and there is a lot more to this chart and GTO and ICM than I understand so take it with a grain of salt